And on the software side of things ... the Apple issues are different from Microsoft how? I've certainly had a LOT of issues with MS products over the years and waited 6 months+ for a "hotfix" of some sort to resolve the issues, leaving us either dead in the water for mission critical stuff or having to jump through insanely crazy hoops to downgrade our "open" licenses back to 5 year old versions of the OS in order to get things working again.
It all comes down to the same pile of crap, just different flavours Sadly I think the last of the "pro" hardware from Apple is on the way out. We're going to try and nurse as many years as we can from our last shipment of Mac Pros we got this summer ... because I think that the darth vader trash can model is just a disaster waiting to happen for the pro market (not to mention the education market).
Last edited by SYNACK; 16th September 2013 at 05:10 PM.
Thebookyard.com is one place im aware of or ebay if you can find a reputable seller and know exact part you need but you may need to buy extra tools and follow guides on youtube and ones like
Intel iMac section
As stated above this is assuming they are out of warranty and if you wanted to do repairs yourself and if you fudge it up then thats your own doing and wont be covered and im not liable as only giving you the info ref guides and ordering parts etc which is what you requested above I believe
Last edited by mac_shinobi; 16th September 2013 at 05:28 PM.
And yes indeed it does sound like things are very much different outside of North America in terms of pricing especially
But, hey your profile and tagline says it all "Professional Apple Hater extraordinaire." Hardly an objective opinion. I'm doubtful you've ever even touched a Mac. Oops, back to reality...
Some of us have used a wide range of equipment and Operating Systems including Macs and have some years of actual field experience with the them. Apple isn't perfect when it comes to servicing Businesses, but if a business is going to an Apple Store for service they don't have a clue what they are doing. That is why Apple has authorised Repair Centres, many of which cater to business and education markets and can provide faster, onsite service under Apple Care warranty. And if a machine is under warranty it will almost always get repaired and repaired properly. Unlike some of the on-site Dell repairs I've seen where they have to keep coming back.
Last edited by seawolf; 17th September 2013 at 01:24 AM.
Apple cuts Australian Mac prices - Macworld Australia - Macworld Australia and yes others do it too but that does not excuse any of them. As to not having touched a Mac I have the displeasure of supporting half a dozen of them regularly and have dealt with fixing them ( Macs in general , not the same 6 ) for about two decades so I'd wager I've probably had longer dealing with them than many. As to their reviews you may be forgetting how fiercely loyal Apple fans can be, I had a visiting consultant from the states blindly defending his Mac laptop with the keyboard pattern burnt into the screen and cooked wireless card with about 10 metres of range winging about my terrible network that was happily servicing every other laptop in the room flawlessly. They were still full of praise for the thing even though the screen was wrecked, wireless was almost useless and apple would not fix it under warranty. When dealing with users like this they could be flogging their users with sticks and still get good reviews. Most other markets will tell it how it is, you get a dell or hp that sucks you will complain. I'm guessing Apple may have finally upped their game a little for business but their software stack still tells a different story as above.
Last edited by SYNACK; 17th September 2013 at 01:12 AM.
The Mac Pro? Status symbol for most, and some of the price difference in Oz was I'm sure due to needing to support a very small number of them in the country comparatively (Economies of Scale and all you know). Annoying, yes. But, it's a luxury item so, not nearly as annoying and certainly not as unethical as everyday essential goods such as food, rent, and clothing being 2-3 as expensive in Australia as comparable economies. I SO wish the government would investigate THAT, but they won't because governments love higher prices as it means higher tax revenue.
The price cuts you referenced in 2010 were due to the swing from the Aussie dollar being worth about $0.60 USD to getting near parity (and then above). Let's see, a company changes it's pricing due to dramatic swing in currency exchange rates - it's a conspiracy!!!!
So, you had a loon with a personality and hardware that was a distinct outlier on the bell curve of the average Apple customer. I have an IT teacher here that we have had to replace just about every part on his Dell laptop including the keyboard (twice), speakers, speaker covers, screen, screen bezel, battery, power pack, and logic board. I honestly think he must use it as a hockey puck based on appearance and failure rate. However, he still won't own anything other than a Dell even though out of the dozens of staff using MacBook Pros and Airs here only two of them has stopped working in 4 years time, one due to a hard drive failure and the other because of smashed trackpad (only one I've ever seen I might add). Now, I've had good experiences and low failure rates out of many Dell products and IBM (before Lenovo bought them), and some bad experiences with some lines as well, particularly those made in the mid 2000s when Dell shipped all of their manufacturing to Foxconn and others before those companies had very good quality control. I know because I worked for Sanmina-SCI for a couple of years and we used to build most of the Dell desktops in our factories before they cut a contract with the cheap Chinese factories back in 2001-2002 and the quality quickly went downhill.
And, you're forgetting that the "Apple faithful" are not the ones who have been buying masses of Macs, iPhones, and iPads over the past few years. Most of them are people who'd never bought or used an Apple product before other than an iPod. So, you've got two options here (1) everyone instantly becomes a mad, drunken Apple lover upon the first time they purchase an Apple product, or (2) you are a "Professional Apple Hater extraordinaire" and therefore think everything with an Apple label on it is as lametastic as a product could get, and everyone who willingly buys an Apple product is a Steve Jobs, kool-aid drinking moron.
I'm placing my bets on option 2.
1. Average wages are not high enough to be even close to making up for the difference in costs here. But, I digress.
2. There was a time not too long ago when just about every computer in Australia was at least twice as expensive as in the US. Apple was no exception. Every company was doing the same thing. Prices changed pretty much in line with exchange rates and price drops in the states. Many products are within 10% of the cost here as in the US now. Account for the GST and the higher operating costs (rent, labour, red tape) for doing business in Australia and you're at par in pricing. Price drops don't come immediately with changes in exchange rates because only time can determine if the changes are going to be persistent and not transitory. Also, prices themselves are like wages and are "sticky". Once you've dropped them it's hard to go back the other way. Kind of the opposite to wages.
3. People are looking for something simpler because (1) they are less skilled, or (2) they're tired of fighting their computers to get them to work properly. The best system is one that doesn't require any or little training for the average person to use. Apple got that, and they've been rewarded by mostly happy consumers. Which, of course is why every PC company on earth is now copying Apple.
[SARCASM] I know, I know - stupid PC companies - Apple is lametastic and makes horrible products that only morons buy. Why would they want to copy that? After all, I just don't know why Apple keeps planning for the future when their products are so obviously wretched and the company is totally doomed. [/SARCASM]
4. Although the interface is simpler, the Mac is running on top of Unix. So, power users are completely catered for as well. Unless you think Unix is for morons and simpletons who don't have any skills?
Last edited by seawolf; 17th September 2013 at 02:23 AM.
/ADMIN NOTE: This thread is escalating a bit out of control, please ease off the trolling.
Apple are like everyone else, they have issues and go lalala fingers in the ears at time as have every other hardware manufacturer on the planet. They have been clear in the past about catering for the consumer so even though they have a unix base, its not enterprise or anyway like it (those bugs with auth are a simply a joke and should NEVER happen nor take weeks to fix). This is before we get to NTFS and its object permissions that I find amazingly powerful. I do hold out hope Cook will bring apple back into the sphere of enterprise but we will see as I think he fears making his own mark and is sitting trying to be minijobs although he did at least kill appletalk for proper shares by default (ntfs write plz.... and cut and paste a file WITH THE EXPECTED SHORTCUT)
Hardware wise I have found apple kit to be pretty good but you are paying a premium for it, I have also find if you actually spend a similar amount on dell/hp hardware you likewise get a decent product. The issues most have is when they compare a £400 laptop to a macbook pro an expect it to be close, it simply cant be, they have to save money somewhere and at least those that buy apple know they generally cover most of the bases for the price.
I also have not seen a mass stampeded to buy macs especially in business, they are still not the biggest worldwide (no usa only stats, we are a big world) by a long shot. I dont suddenly see everyone I know with a mac, nor do I find a mass wanting to get one (excluding iDevices) and when people see the price it doesnt even get a starting foot when they can buy tablets/laptops for less. Business especially struggles to justify mac's unless they are very aware of a clear benefit. On the other hand if a person does buy mac they usually stay mac (except me) but that can be for a variety of issues and one is certainly its simple (until it breaks) to use to a point....
Now time to get off this fence back to topic, balancing is getting tricky
Last edited by ZeroHour; 17th September 2013 at 03:13 AM.
Yes, it has gotten a bit off topic, but I believe the original question was answered. And, since you've added an opinion I'll make one last "off topic" comment in response.
You've certainly made a valid observation about business in general. Many businesses are still running XP or will run Win 7 for the next decade and are largely stuck on Windows whether they like it or not due to legacy software or Windows-only software solutions for their industry. On the other hand, the world of Education is changing extremely rapidly. Last year at the National Education Conference in Sydney I scanned the Wifi network to see what devices people were using. I was amazed. Out of the 650+ people on the network at the conference (mostly teachers) over 80% were using either iPads or Macbooks. During one of the keynotes about the future of DER funding and BYOD in schools the presenter asked for a show of hands from the audience regarding how many of them were using their own device and not the one they were issued by their school. The majority raised their hands. That means that when given a choice, most of the teachers in the room from public and private schools across the nation were choosing to use iPads or Macs.I also have not seen a mass stampeded to buy macs especially in business, they are still not the biggest worldwide (no usa only stats, we are a big world) by a long shot. I dont suddenly see everyone I know with a mac, nor do I find a mass wanting to get one (excluding iDevices) and when people see the price it doesnt even get a starting foot when they can buy tablets/laptops for less. Business especially struggles to justify mac's unless they are very aware of a clear benefit.
Now, as an IT Manager in the Education industry that means I and many other schools had best be prepared to support and integrate these devices and not do it kicking and screaming or else we will all be gone. I know a couple of schools where this has already happened. IT people in the education industry in Australia must be prepared and capable of changing or they had best go get a job at a bank where they will still be using Windows 7 in 2030. Get prepared and re-skilled for it, or it will be time to move to another industry or career. At least in this country.
BTW - "AppleTalk" has been dead for a while. AFP is not AppleTalk and it has some advantages over SMB (metadata and search) that will hopefully be added to SMB in the future. Also, NTFS and SMB aren't the same thing. Only Windows runs on NTFS and there are free or cheap solutions to allow Macs to write to NTFS (NTFS-3G) and PCs to write to HFS+. If Apple were to change it's file system I would hope they would move to ZFS or a similar modern, robust file system rather than NTFS! It would be fantastic if all vendors could decide on a standard file system such as ZFS or an open source equivalent, but I'm not going to hold my breath!
Last edited by seawolf; 17th September 2013 at 03:49 AM.
I am not saying progress is bad, or even that ipad is necessarily bad, but when no one really does the due diligence and purchases ipads so a teacher can give the class an "internet browsing lesson" the value needs to be measured especially with the lesson plan.
When it comes to older pupils (12+) I really start to struggle to see why a school would give each an ipad, sure its nice but will we see smarter kids, no one knows as its still only VERY early days with all these things and thats why we need to slow down a bit. ipads were not around when I was a kid but we didnt all end up thick, its not to say lessons couldnt have been more interesting, its just we shouldnt all buy in so quickly. If you take 2 years to evaluate the uses in different departments those kids who went through the school without ipads will be fine (not thick) and the risk for the school is greatly reduced as well as allowing time for staff to train and get up to speed on if they want to use it themselves.
The one saving grace of ipad's and tablets is now teachers are actually a bit happier to learn about how they could have used technology in their classroom for the last 10 years. We had some amazing kit for teachers rolled out at great expense but it didnt *inspire* (did I really just write that...) them to use it so it was wasted and rolled out in haste without actually taking a minute to find out who would use it and when.
Did all those teachers have supplied laptops/tablets but chose to use their own (I dont know if you have a laptop for teachers program etc out there) or did they take their own kit because there is no supplied kit or its out of date? (budgets)
Did the school provided solution fail to meet there needs and how?
Without knowing its hard to draw any conclusion from that data tbh but I know you were not making a hard case with the data. I wonder what I would find at the EduGeek conference
I dont want us to keep looping around the points as such but I am not against ipads and mac's or any technology as long as it will be used properly by the teacher, when they cant tell you exactly how they would use it over and above what they have (thinking of schools where computers are in every room with interactive whiteboards and projectors on mass and the teachers answer is I can browse while the projector is on) things need to be slowed down and reevaluated before moving forward.
As this thread was now getting well off topic, but it is I believe a broader topic worthy of discussion, I have created a new thread with a starting point being the last couple of posts. I have posted a reply on there.
Discussion on IT in Education (Tablets, Mac, Win, *nix, Chromebooks, etc.)
I have always been of the opinion that if Apple had made their OS available to more manufacturers, then Windows would have been wiped out years ago as there are clear advantages to it in terms of ease of use for non-techies.
However as has already been pointed out as soon as I see the price for an admittedly beautifully designed Mac I question why anybody would pay so much more for something that is still just a computer and still just runs software (that will mostly run on cheaper PC hardware) and will still be out of date far too soon.
I do not consider myself an "Apple hater" just someone who does not like single source suppliers with no competition to keep prices sensible.
As an aside I remember doing a computer event just before the launch of Windows 98 and a Mac user saying " Oh look, Windows 98 or as we call it Mac 85" to which I replied "Yes and if Apple had shared their technology we would all be using it..."
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