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Mac Thread, The New Mac Pro in Technical; Originally Posted by synaesthesia Yes, plenty of others have done this. It's not uncommon, i think a majority of consoles ...
  1. #46

    seawolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by synaesthesia View Post
    Yes, plenty of others have done this. It's not uncommon, i think a majority of consoles do similar but there's a little less to them. In fact it's hardly any different to basic laptop design in reality. Apple have failed at that before. All devices physically connecting to the same heatsink feels like a heat trap, it's a bit different with heatpipes as the transfer is "mobile". There's a lot more heat coming from this than heatpipe connected laptops too with a workstation level gpu, high end processor and the RAM. I'd like to see a top-down of that heatsink, as it stands it looks unsuitable. I'd of course say "clearly they've done the work" but this is Apple. Looking good > function or lifespan.
    I can't say that I remember ever seeing a similar heatsink and cooling design before for any other computer. Consoles mostly use a stock standard PC or laptop cooling design (Xbox 360 CPU Heat Sink Replacement - iFixit) and I don't know of any laptops that use a triangle shaped heatsink and logic board?

    I don't know how much real world experience you have with Macs (given your comments on function and lifespan), but I have owned 12 PowerMacs / Mac Pros in the past 9 years (either personally or as company IT gear) and I've only had a hardware failure on one of them of any sort. That was a power supply on a 5 year old Power Mac. Once that was replaced it went for another 3 years until I sold it. The longest lived PowerMac I had was a G4 that wouldn't die even though it was 10 years old, but wasn't much use to me anymore. I've also managed hundreds of Macs in that timeframe and failure rates have been nearly non-existent with one exception - DVD drives on 2010 Mac Minis. Those had a habit of dying and are probably one reason why they disappeared on next version of the Mini.

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  3. #47

    mac_shinobi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seawolf View Post
    I can't say that I remember ever seeing a similar heatsink and cooling design before for any other computer. Consoles mostly use a stock standard PC or laptop cooling design (Xbox 360 CPU Heat Sink Replacement - iFixit) and I don't know of any laptops that use a triangle shaped heatsink and logic board?

    I don't know how much real world experience you have with Macs (given your comments on function and lifespan), but I have owned 12 PowerMacs / Mac Pros in the past 9 years (either personally or as company IT gear) and I've only had a hardware failure on one of them of any sort. That was a power supply on a 5 year old Power Mac. Once that was replaced it went for another 3 years until I sold it. The longest lived PowerMac I had was a G4 that wouldn't die even though it was 10 years old, but wasn't much use to me anymore. I've also managed hundreds of Macs in that timeframe and failure rates have been nearly non-existent with one exception - DVD drives on 2010 Mac Minis. Those had a habit of dying and are probably one reason why they disappeared on next version of the Mini.
    Can't say I have seen any consoles or come to think of it anything else having a triangular shaped heatsink with a fan blowing cool air down the central area to keep the metallic fins cool(er)

    Had a 12" G4 notebook, 2008 Mac Pro with two 2.8 Ghz Quad Core's, currently have a 2011 mac mini ( without an optical drive ).

    Only issue I had was with the G4 notebook due to the pin snapping inside of the dc in cable and had to replace that , one order later from ebay and some torx / philips screw drivers etc and I had it repaired after using a combination of ifixit.net and youtube and then sold it on ebay.

    2008 Mac Pro I sold on ebay as needed money to get a car

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    synaesthesia's Avatar
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    I have a few randoms at home much to my wife's chagrin, and have repaired/written off an unknown amount - probably somewhere between 700 and a thousand machines of varying ages (rough estimate), PPC and Intel. I wasn't referring to the shape of the heatsink, just heat connected components.

    The amount of warranty return macbook pro's I've dealt with is beyond amusing. Apple are salespeople, very good ones, and do a good job in hiding things from public eye. Thankfully I work in education now (obviously) and don't have to deal with too much apple hardware as a result.

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    Quote Originally Posted by synaesthesia View Post
    I have a few randoms at home much to my wife's chagrin, and have repaired/written off an unknown amount - probably somewhere between 700 and a thousand machines of varying ages (rough estimate), PPC and Intel. I wasn't referring to the shape of the heatsink, just heat connected components.

    The amount of warranty return macbook pro's I've dealt with is beyond amusing. Apple are salespeople, very good ones, and do a good job in hiding things from public eye. Thankfully I work in education now (obviously) and don't have to deal with too much apple hardware as a result.
    Each to there own I suppose

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    I have had a few Apple products in my time. I had a first gen iPod touch, a G4, a Power Mac and a Macbook Air.

    The air failed quite spectacularly because it couldn't cool itself sufficiently when running photoshop and a few other bits (Office etc). It quite literally burnt itself out. Apple wouldnt touch it, despite being under warranty, because I didn't give it a sufficient space to cool. I didn't realise a desk with a laptop cooling tray wasn't sufficient, but hey ho!
    The G4 is probably still running somewhere, I had it for 4 years and never once failed on me.
    The powermac is had a few PSU failures (I think 3 overall), and then a motherboard failure after the 3rd PSU. I gave up on it.
    The iPod touch, once upgraded as high as it would go, ran like a turtle through treacle and died shortly after.

    Older apple products are fantastically long lived, and work well for a long time.
    The new products (in my experience) fail quite quickly, and apple themselves dont like dealing with their own failed products and try to shift the blame to you rather than their defective parts or workmanship.

    As a result, I steer clear where possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by synaesthesia View Post
    I have a few randoms at home much to my wife's chagrin, and have repaired/written off an unknown amount - probably somewhere between 700 and a thousand machines of varying ages (rough estimate), PPC and Intel. I wasn't referring to the shape of the heatsink, just heat connected components.

    I suppose YMMV, but the amount of warranty return macbook pro's I've dealt with is beyond amusing. Apple are salespeople, very good ones, and do a good job in hiding things from public eye. Thankfully I work in education now (obviously) and don't have to deal with too much apple hardware as a result.
    There have only been three (singular) issues I've seen with 2009 and later MBP's.

    1. An Intel SSD that died after 12 months, replaced under warranty in 24 hours.
    2. A trackpad that was smashed by a teacher's kid on a 4 year old MBP - replaced by me for only $75
    3. A MBP that was toasted (literally) with a full glass of red wine poured onto the keyboard.

    On the other hand, we've had Dell e6500s that have required multiple repairs for multiple things including faulty screens, bezel falling apart, dead speakers, faulty keyboards, faulty logic board, faulty RAM, faulty HDDs. Now those things have been what I would call laughable.

    Probably the best of the PC laptops I've seen lately are some of the Ultrabooks by Asus and Samsung. But, then again they are dead ringers for MBAs...

  8. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by nephilim View Post
    I have had a few Apple products in my time. I had a first gen iPod touch, a G4, a Power Mac and a Macbook Air.

    The air failed quite spectacularly because it couldn't cool itself sufficiently when running photoshop and a few other bits (Office etc). It quite literally burnt itself out. Apple wouldnt touch it, despite being under warranty, because I didn't give it a sufficient space to cool. I didn't realise a desk with a laptop cooling tray wasn't sufficient, but hey ho!
    The G4 is probably still running somewhere, I had it for 4 years and never once failed on me.
    The powermac is had a few PSU failures (I think 3 overall), and then a motherboard failure after the 3rd PSU. I gave up on it.
    The iPod touch, once upgraded as high as it would go, ran like a turtle through treacle and died shortly after.

    Older apple products are fantastically long lived, and work well for a long time.
    The new products (in my experience) fail quite quickly, and apple themselves dont like dealing with their own failed products and try to shift the blame to you rather than their defective parts or workmanship.

    As a result, I steer clear where possible.
    My 2011 mac mini has been rock solid since I had it and got apple care for it and it still runs great, could do with upgrading the hard drive to an SSD though but won't have money for a while so just leaving it as is for now

  9. #53

    synaesthesia's Avatar
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    I remember the e6500's, not machines I'd ever go for again. Shame the quality can vary so much within the same company, the Latitude's of the D830/630 era and older were awesome machines, yet it was funny how the same machine with a different badge on (Inspiron) were less reliable. Probably some cherry picking involved!

    The majority of failures I had on MB's were heat issue and dry joint as said. Some failures seemed odd, for instance the last batch of g5 (?) pro's were beast machines with some awesome cooling yet still seemed to often have issues usually relating to graphics cards. I was in the middle of it all when the Big Exploding Battery Thing hit Apple and Dell. Managed to scrounge a lot of screens and RAM from otherwise sploded laptops thankfully

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    We have the E6400 machines here that are used as loan laptops and other than swapping keyboards on the odd occasion, one hinge and a few cmos batteries as well as a few hard drives due to the age of them, they have been great

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    Quote Originally Posted by synaesthesia View Post
    I remember the e6500's, not machines I'd ever go for again. Shame the quality can vary so much within the same company, the Latitude's of the D830/630 era and older were awesome machines, yet it was funny how the same machine with a different badge on (Inspiron) were less reliable. Probably some cherry picking involved!

    The majority of failures I had on MB's were heat issue and dry joint as said. Some failures seemed odd, for instance the last batch of g5 (?) pro's were beast machines with some awesome cooling yet still seemed to often have issues usually relating to graphics cards. I was in the middle of it all when the Big Exploding Battery Thing hit Apple and Dell. Managed to scrounge a lot of screens and RAM from otherwise sploded laptops thankfully
    We had plenty of the Dell 820/830 models and they were solid. I think a few teachers still have some floating around at home that they bought from us. The E6500s were pure junk. I used to work for SCI (later Sanmina-SCI) and we used to build alot of the Dell kit before they decided to farm it off to the lowest bidder in China. Foxcon in 2002 did not have good quality control.

    The G5 Mac laptops did have heat-related problems and that was one of the reasons why the PowerPC got the flick. IBM couldn't keep up with Intel in the power/efficiency race. This is also why Apple started buying up semiconductor companies and designing their own chips for mobile devices. The Intel laptops - have been very, very solid. Only time will tell with the Retina display models, but we haven't seen any issues in the few that are floating around the school.
    Last edited by seawolf; 6th February 2014 at 01:33 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by seawolf View Post
    The G5 Mac laptops did have heat-related problems and that was one of the reasons why the PowerPC got the flick. IBM couldn't keep up with Intel in the power/efficiency race. This is also why Apple started buying up semiconductor companies and designing their own chips for mobile devices. The Intel laptops - have been very, very solid. Only time will tell with the Retina display models, but we haven't seen any issues in the few that are floating around the school.
    First there was no such thing as a G5 Mac laptop, at least not one that made it to release.

    Second that's not the reason why Apple started buying up semiconductor companies, they bought them up so that they could manufacture their own ARM based silicon and save themselves a lot of money. It had nothing to do with the whole PowerPC/Intel transition and it had nothing to do with keeping up with the Joneses so-to-speak, it had everything to do with their bottom line. They already had people designing the processors at that point in time, they just needed to be able to build them without being at the mercy of another company for the costing portion of things.

    Lastly @seawolf, do you really assume that because something is made in the US it has better quality control??? That's so ridiculous it's not even funny. If so then the brainwashing has been successful. I can tell you first hand that built in US doesn't necessarily mean quality ... take a look at the auto industry! I'll give you that one as you seem to be pretty far away from the US, but as a Canadian and living right next door I can certainly tell you different no matter how many people in the US try to defend that position.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerk View Post
    First there was no such thing as a G5 Mac laptop, at least not one that made it to release.

    Second that's not the reason why Apple started buying up semiconductor companies, they bought them up so that they could manufacture their own ARM based silicon and save themselves a lot of money. It had nothing to do with the whole PowerPC/Intel transition and it had nothing to do with keeping up with the Joneses so-to-speak, it had everything to do with their bottom line. They already had people designing the processors at that point in time, they just needed to be able to build them without being at the mercy of another company for the costing portion of things.

    Lastly @seawolf, do you really assume that because something is made in the US it has better quality control??? That's so ridiculous it's not even funny. If so then the brainwashing has been successful. I can tell you first hand that built in US doesn't necessarily mean quality ... take a look at the auto industry! I'll give you that one as you seem to be pretty far away from the US, but as a Canadian and living right next door I can certainly tell you different no matter how many people in the US try to defend that position.
    Ah, yes you're right about the G5, good catch. My bad, it was past my bed time. G4s I did mean.

    You must have some inside info on Apple's reasons for designing their own chips? Yes, not being beholden to a single supplier is a good part of their reasoning, but efficiency (less heat, more battery life) along with power (A7 anyone) were certainly big factors as well.

    Manufacturing in the US doesn't guarantee quality, but when a tech company like Apple manufactures in the US they are doing so to have greater control over the manufacturing process. It's also why Sun assembled their hardware in the USA (parts manufactured elsewhere). You also do realise that BMW, Mercedes, Totyota, Nissan, and Volkswagon all manufacture in the USA as well? Mostly in the union unfriendly south though. The corrupt and heavy handed unionised labour in the north is one of the things that just about killed the American car company.

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    Lovely looking device, very impressive engineering too tbf, but overpriced too much, that being said, I am eyeing up the next rejig of airs/mac minis as that might me warrant buying a mac device finally, as I am loving the imac in work at the moment

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    Quote Originally Posted by rich_tech View Post
    but overpriced too much
    Try building a PC with identical (or very similar) components and you'll find that the Mac Pro is actually very reasonably-priced.

    A pro with serious workstation needs reviews Apple’s 2013 Mac Pro « Ars Technica

    The Price
    While many people, mostly of the troll variety, will be running around the Web screaming "so expensive!" the new Mac Pro is anything but when considering what's in the package. I joked on Twitter that Apple's Mac Pro deal is this: "buy two discounted FirePro W9000 cards and get a workstation for free," and that's not an exaggeration. The AMD FirePro W9000 retails on Newegg for $3400, $600 under MSRP. Apple's FirePro D700 is similar to this card, and the company ships two of them in the machine for $600 more than the D500 that comes stock with the 6-core configuration. It all makes this bottom radio button the easiest one a 3D graphics junkie ever clicked:

    Because Apple is designing its own machine and card for the GPU, AMD doesn't have to front the cost of manufacturing them. This likely kept the price lower than if Apple paid OEM prices for an existing card. Combine this with the sky-high price of the Xeon E5 chips, and you would be way out of line to call the Mac Pro "expensive."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur View Post
    Try building a PC with identical (or very similar) components and you'll find that the Mac Pro is actually very reasonably-priced.

    A pro with serious workstation needs reviews Apple’s 2013 Mac Pro « Ars Technica
    That's without the PCI-e x16 ssd



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