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Mac Thread, Apple Configurator + Supervised iPads + iTunes in Technical; Originally Posted by Driftingashore Hah, after a lot of confusion, I think I've just figured this out. The key sentence ...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Driftingashore View Post
    Hah, after a lot of confusion, I think I've just figured this out.

    The key sentence is in this PDF: "Additionally, supervised devices can’t be synced with iTunes or with Apple Configurator on a different Mac"

    Now, I think most people read this as "with iTunes; or with Apple Configurator on a different Mac", but it seems as if that's incorrect. I just tried syncing a supervised iPad with iTunes on the same machine as I have Configurator installed, and it worked. On any other computer, it fails.

    So to summarise: you CAN use iTunes to load content onto your supervised iPads, but iTunes HAS to be installed on the same machine as the one you're managing them through Configurator on to do so. At least, that's how it's working for me.
    That's very interesting, because this is certainly not the case as far as we're concerned.

    Naturally, this was the first thing we tried - but when you open iTunes (on the same iMac that's running Apple Configurator) it doesn't recognise the iPad and gives the standard message offering two choices of either restoring from a backup or building afresh.

    Has anyone else managed to get iTunes working with an iPad that's previously been set up with Apple Configurator? The statement from the Apple Configurator Deployment Guide...."Additionally, supervised devices can’t be synced with iTunes or with Apple Configurator on a different Mac.".... would imply to me that supervised devices can't be synced with iTunes on any Mac (including the 'master') - which is also based on our own experiences.

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    This is strange. Perhaps I'm suffering a very handy bug due to a subtle difference in the way we've set our devices up. Anyway, I'm running 10.8.3, Configurator 1.2.1, and iTunes 11.0.2.

    Random things that may have caused this:

    I completed the iOS 6 setup screen after supervising with Configurator - not before.
    iTunes is authorised for the institution's Apple ID.

    I was going to do some trial and error re-supervisions to see if I could reverse engineer the cause, but our internet connection is atrocious, and I can't restore until after 6.1.3 downloads.. which could be a while.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Driftingashore View Post
    This is strange. Perhaps I'm suffering a very handy bug due to a subtle difference in the way we've set our devices up. Anyway, I'm running 10.8.3, Configurator 1.2.1, and iTunes 11.0.2.

    Random things that may have caused this:

    I completed the iOS 6 setup screen after supervising with Configurator - not before.
    iTunes is authorised for the institution's Apple ID.

    I was going to do some trial and error re-supervisions to see if I could reverse engineer the cause, but our internet connection is atrocious, and I can't restore until after 6.1.3 downloads.. which could be a while.
    Finally, I've managed to speak with someone at Apple who knows the product!!

    They have confirmed my thoughts that once a device has been configured as "supervised" using Apple Configurator, it will not work with iTunes (whether on the original Mac, or an a different Mac). This is by design.

    Driftingashore, I'm not sure how you set things up your end, but Apple have said what you described as impossible! Maybe you've inadvertently cracked their system Either way, it's not meant to be possible.

    I was pointed in the direction of a useful video tutorial (for those starting out on the arduous task of setting up iPads)...although it was no use to me, as we have already set things up as described:

    Apple - Education - Resources - Videos

    From my own experience, and based on the conversation I had today with Apple support, I would not recommend (or wish on my worst enemy) the "Institutional Ownership" model. Interaction design at its worst, and an awful user experience for both IT personnel and students alike. Sadly, I can't see any real alternatives. We don't want to go down the "Layered Ownership" model, as this would involve our students having to create and use their own Apple ID and install their own apps. Interestingly, this would also officially preclude 2/5 of our students who are under the age of 13 (the others would need to seek parental consent):

    iTUNES STORE - TERMS AND CONDITIONS

    I realise there is no technical limitation, but we prefer to do things 'by the book'!!

    Not sure what else to say, other than arrrrgggghhhhh!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by cbsc View Post
    They have confirmed my thoughts that once a device has been configured as "supervised" using Apple Configurator, it will not work with iTunes (whether on the original Mac, or an a different Mac). This is by design.
    Does that mean that supervised iPads cannot be wiped and used with another computer running iTunes? or would you need to unsupervise them first?

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    Quote Originally Posted by cbsc View Post
    Not sure what else to say, other than arrrrgggghhhhh!!
    I agree, im pulling my hair out trying to get Profile Manager to work, its really shocking, Apple put no thought into management and enterprise of these things, but are so keen to push it to Schools.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JJonas View Post
    Does that mean that supervised iPads cannot be wiped and used with another computer running iTunes? or would you need to unsupervise them first?
    Yes, you can always wipe an iPad and use it on another Mac running iTunes. You just lose all the settings, data and apps! However, it's recommended to unsupervise them first to claim back the app codes that you've already allocated to it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SovietRussia View Post
    I agree, im pulling my hair out trying to get Profile Manager to work, its really shocking, Apple put no thought into management and enterprise of these things, but are so keen to push it to Schools.
    The only thing I'd say in defense of Apple is that they never designed the iPad to be used in an enterprise environment...and they developed the Apple Configurator product as an attempt at making enterprise deployment easier.

    You can understand why Apple restrict certain functionality (in terms of enterprise deployment). It's to safeguard their profits. Simples

    The problem is that in the mean time, CEOs / Headteachers are buying these devices, handing them over to their IT departments and telling them to "make them work!". The reality is that the iPads do not work when used as a shared device. The sooner people realise this, the better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cbsc View Post
    Finally, I've managed to speak with someone at Apple who knows the product!!

    They have confirmed my thoughts that once a device has been configured as "supervised" using Apple Configurator, it will not work with iTunes (whether on the original Mac, or an a different Mac). This is by design.

    Driftingashore, I'm not sure how you set things up your end, but Apple have said what you described as impossible! Maybe you've inadvertently cracked their system Either way, it's not meant to be possible.
    I'm posting this for the sake of my own sanity as much as I am to prove that it actually works for me

    The vid shows the iPad in Configurator, then iTunes on the same machine, then iTunes failing on a Windows VM. Now I'm going to be spending hours trying to work out what the hell I did to cause this..

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1n2i4dxKCCM

    Excuse the frustrating lag of the poor old mac..
    Last edited by Driftingashore; 20th March 2013 at 01:46 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Driftingashore View Post
    I'm posting this for the sake of my own sanity as much as I am to prove that it actually works for me

    The vid shows the iPad in Configurator, then iTunes on the same machine, then iTunes failing on a Windows VM. Now I'm going to be spending hours trying to work out what the hell I did to cause this..

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1n2i4dxKCCM

    Excuse the frustrating lag of the poor old mac..
    Excused!

    That's very interesting, and I'd be interested to know if anyone else has managed to replicate this?

    Unlikely, but I guess it can't be anything to do with it running off VMware fusion (I have no experience with the product)? I don't suppose you have another Mac (OS X only) that you could test/replicate this on? I have tried on a couple of different Macs, and the iPad won't sync with iTunes (once supervised).

    You may want to remove your YouTube video before Apple catch on and put a stop to this treason!!

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    I don't think it would have anything to do with Fusion - that's just running the Windows VM because I was too lazy to get up and install iTunes on a physical machine to make sure it wouldn't work anywhere else. Sadly I sold my other mac a few weeks ago, so don't have another to test with. I could try creating an OS X VM, but then Apple really would have reason to sue me!

    I'm starting to wonder if it's something to do with when I played around with iFunBox - I tried to copy an iTunes Library from an unsupervised device (originating on the iTunes that is now working) over the iTunes library on a supervised device, and Configurator didn't like it until the iPad was unsupervised/resupervised. This is going to bug me for a long time, and I can't test things out because I can't get iTunes not to work on the master machine! Arg!

    But if you want to buy an old macbook pro, I have one that's got some pretty nifty management features!

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    Quote Originally Posted by cbsc View Post
    The only thing I'd say in defense of Apple is that they never designed the iPad to be used in an enterprise environment...and they developed the Apple Configurator product as an attempt at making enterprise deployment easier.

    You can understand why Apple restrict certain functionality (in terms of enterprise deployment). It's to safeguard their profits. Simples

    The problem is that in the mean time, CEOs / Headteachers are buying these devices, handing them over to their IT departments and telling them to "make them work!". The reality is that the iPads do not work when used as a shared device. The sooner people realise this, the better.
    Apple Configurator was never designed and is in no way shape or form for use with the Enterprise environment, every large enterprise deployment have used a proper MDM solution to manage these devices. Apple configurator does work well in a shared device senario, the Garageband Import/Export features you want use are really at the edge of what is currently possible on the iPad.

    No enterprise deployment has used the institutional model and apps are considered a consumable item

    Why don't you just unsupervise the devices and use the personal model ? Yes the apps can not be moved back to configurator once installed but this would immediately solve your problem?
    Last edited by Sean-OC04; 20th March 2013 at 06:10 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean-OC04 View Post
    Apple Configurator was never designed and is in no way shape or form for use with the Enterprise environment, every large enterprise deployment have used a proper MDM solution to manage these devices. Apple configurator does work well in a shared device senario, the Garageband Import/Export features you want use are really at the edge of what is currently possible on the iPad.

    No enterprise deployment has used the institutional model and apps are considered a consumable item

    Why don't you just unsupervise the devices and use the personal model ? Yes the apps can not be moved back to configurator once installed but this would immediately solve your problem?

    Personally, I don't see what's wrong with the shared ownership model, and we're running a somewhat in-between model ourselves: a supervised model with mostly local restrictions, so that teachers can override them using a restrictions passcode. If a student is allowed to install an app by a teacher, or a teacher installs one they own to use in a lesson, it'll be wiped by Configurator on return. The institution's applications provide baseline functionality, which can be expanded upon, if required. Granted, we only have a small number of iPads, and sadly this method doesn't scale for one reason: you can't enforce a restrictions passcode through a profile, and the restrictions passcode doesn't restore from a backup of one iPad to a different iPad, but the restrictions themselves do. Therefore we have to set one up, back it up and restore to the other iPads, then go through the other iPads to add the restrictions passcode and back each of them up individually, having them restore to their own backup in the future.

    If the restrictions passcode could be enforced, this would make this model perfect (for us), and it very nearly is. It's just a bit of a pain to set up, and a shame that it's such a small thing (profile enforced passcode) that makes it difficult.
    Last edited by Driftingashore; 21st March 2013 at 10:27 AM.

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