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London Grid for Learning (LGfL) Thread, The children at YOUR SCHOOL can access porn images under the LGFL filtering... in Regional Broadband Consortiums (RBC); Originally Posted by SYNACK A full proof solution, pull the power from the modem. There is never going to be ...
  1. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by SYNACK View Post
    A full proof solution, pull the power from the modem. There is never going to be a 100% solution, closest you'll get is a whitelist of sites.

    As part of a managed service you will only get the amount of effort they need to keep most on the service, if you want control you need to take it in house and take responsibility directly rather than handing it off.
    Oh I totally agree it cannot and will not ever be 100%, but if you buy into a service you expect it to be atleast up to standard do you not? Such as refering back to my previous point, google images being open to the world, but maybe I'm being too over the top. Should LGFL just be reactive and not proactive. Is it enough for them to block the bear minimum and when a 10 year old (or a 7 year old in primary) finds a picture of a person being beheaded in the street, we should just shrug it off, and let them know of how he/she did it, and they then (maybe) block that website... For me, that's not good enough, maybe it is for you guys!


    Anyway...

    Alittle update people, my job was ''Put on hold'' about excite.co.uk/.com with a response of...

    '' Hi Ryan.

    Netsweeper have not actioned the development tickets that were raised as a result of this issue so it's high likely that this is not going to be resolved soon.

    I will place this case on hold for the time being ''

    What's the chances this never gets opened again, should we take this as an answer ... 'it probably wont get resolved, so ... just deal with it'?

    What do you guys (and girls) think?

    Ryan
    Last edited by RJohnson91; 14th March 2013 at 08:38 AM.

  2. #47

    Geoff's Avatar
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    As you acknowledge, you have to compromise somewhere along the scale because 100% is unfeasable. So in your particular situation where LGFL thinks the line for 'good enough' is drawn isn't where you think it should be. This is no longer a technical issue and becomes a policy one. So if you're in a position to make a decision about said policy then do so, otherwise kick it up the management chain.

  3. #48

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    Tickets should not go on hold when you are waiting for a response from the service providers sub-contractors ... it is still a live issue that needs dealing with. You might want to agree for it to go on hold but only with an agreed schedule of how frequently it is going to be chased and also with an agreed escalation point for dealing with this. If someone with the service provider's team has said it is not a live risk / issue then it has to be escalated to someone who can make a decision about it.

    I would contact a) your LA eSafety Officer to highlight the risk and b) your LGfL rep from the LA. This needs to be done with the backing of your Child Protection Officer in the school (they *have* to highlight it as a risk for it to be dealt with) and your SLT.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pinemarten View Post
    No - but the policies should only relate to access via school-owned connections .
    Proving that may be another matter - but as long as children are allowed to BYOD they can bring their connection with them.

    Parents give up their right to complain about their child's access to unfiltered web the moment they buy them a web-enabled device ....location is irrelevant,
    eg. a child living next door to the school can just as easily access porn on his mobile in the playground as he can over the fence in his parents' garden!
    also them with wifi in your building that is correctly filtered, they are more like to use the wifi than their own 3g if the signal is for the 3g rubbish.

  5. #50

    Geoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ConradJones View Post
    also them with wifi in your building that is correctly filtered, they are more like to use the wifi than their own 3g if the signal is for the 3g rubbish.
    Well yes and no. Most phones/tablets etc can switch between wifi and mobile with a simple toggle. So, browse on wifi, hit a block, switch to 3g to get blocked content, switch back to wifi when done. An example use case would be. I'm looking for a video on youtube but youtube is blocked. I can use google to find the direct link then switch to 3g to get the actual content. I accept that this requires a little technical proactiveness but I doubt this would be beyond some children in a school to work out and once one has it figured out you might as well assume they all do.
    Last edited by Geoff; 14th March 2013 at 11:57 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff View Post
    Well yes and no. Most phones/tablets etc can switch between wifi and mobile with a simple toggle. So, browse on wifi, hit a block, switch to 3g to get blocked content, switch back to wifi when done.
    totally agree, unless like our building you can't get a signal!

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    Geoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ConradJones View Post
    totally agree, unless like our building you can't get a signal!
    I doubt 'build thicker walls' would be an acceptable solution to pitch to the SMT. And no, Mobile phone signal jammers are illegal.

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    electronic jammers are. concrete isn't

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    I had loads of grief with excite and ended up talking to them direct and they just did not want to help resolve safe searching which sounds like you problem - why don't you just block excite and be done with it ? simple solution really

  10. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nodrog View Post
    I had loads of grief with excite and ended up talking to them direct and they just did not want to help resolve safe searching which sounds like you problem - why don't you just block excite and be done with it ? simple solution really
    Or tell the managed provider that you are paying for service that you are not happy with to stick it and do it properly yourself. The only reason these managed monsters still exist is that schools are unwilling to simply tell them they are not up to it and they can die in a ditch somewhere. All of them stick with it and the mediocrity continues.

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    I'm not sure that telling anybody to 'die in a ditch' is a helpful comment here and your use of it does you no credit.

    The managed service provider be that LGfL, Atomwide, BT, Virgin Media, NetSweeper or the UK Government cannot be held responsible for the content of the Internet. If a web site on the Internet pro-actively try's to make safe searching difficult or impossible to enforce then that’s good cause to block the whole site as it demonstrates the sites moral position and one has to wonder what other tricks they are up to. Google at least try and help with the dns methods that they publish and service providers should make these available to end users which LGfL do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nodrog View Post
    The managed service provider be that LGfL, Atomwide, BT, Virgin Media, NetSweeper or the UK Government cannot be held responsible for the content of the Internet. If a web site on the Internet pro-actively try's to make safe searching difficult or impossible to enforce then that’s good cause to block the whole site as it demonstrates the sites moral position and one has to wonder what other tricks they are up to. Google at least try and help with the dns methods that they publish and service providers should make these available to end users which LGfL do.
    Doesn't work like that. If your ISP offers anything other than an unfiltered connection they are responsible for the filtering system working as promised. However schools have differing requirements, eg primary vs secondary vs post 16 as basic examples of this (this is why a 'one size fits all' offsite filtering system is fundamentally flawed). So what they can deliver is only 'best effort' which is far below a lot of schools (unattainable) expectations. The only real solution when faced with this is to do filtering onsite and tailor it to your schools requirements. It's debatable what 'managed' service you would require once you've reached that point though.

    Also, while we're at it, what about overfiltering? Has anyone considered the other side of this coin?

  13. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nodrog View Post
    I'm not sure that telling anybody to 'die in a ditch' is a helpful comment here and your use of it does you no credit.

    Who needs credit, reductus absurdium (or something like that) taking it back to its basic form and showing the abserdity of it. All filtering is best effort unless it is a whitelist, even then it is not full proof. The internet is vast and asking for perfection is deluded. As stated above though, managed providers are a sure path to mediocraty at best.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SYNACK View Post
    Who needs credit, reductus absurdium (or something like that) taking it back to its basic form and showing the abserdity of it. All filtering is best effort unless it is a whitelist, even then it is not full proof. The internet is vast and asking for perfection is deluded. As stated above though, managed providers are a sure path to mediocraty at best.
    And the contracts are not negotiated by the schools who are using the service, so there is no motivation for the "service" provider to actually cater to the needs of the school

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    Is there some software we can install locally that "vets" the search strings before they are passed to the search engine? If so then it might be easier to create a list of words/phrases that the children might be searching on rather than trying to swot all the search returns!

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