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London Grid for Learning (LGfL) Thread, The children at YOUR SCHOOL can access porn images under the LGFL filtering... in Regional Broadband Consortiums (RBC); So this will be the normal fun of google changing the way they enable safe search which now appears to ...
  1. #31

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    So this will be the normal fun of google changing the way they enable safe search which now appears to be something that you can enable and ‘set’ if you sign into google with your google account ! and then it does work.

    Chrome looks like it’s talking with the google search engine in a more intimate way than other browsers so we are basically down to Google wanting to keep control over everything rather than any filter product.

    One thing I did trip over was Kid SafeSearch UK. Google for kids in the UK with safe search. however if you go here and search on tits the first thing you get is an add at the top which isn’t blocked and is defiantly NOT child friendly – basically Google don’t want to be blocked ….. unless you log in to their system and then choose to turn safe search on …. Very useful ….. (NOT!!) especially if your a 13 year old boy in a secondary school you can enable and disable safe search at will ....

  2. #32

    Geoff's Avatar
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    You shouldn't try and solve a social issue with technology. It never ever works out the way you want. In this particular case I would do the best job you can given the time/budget/technology limitations you have then if people still have an issue then kick the problem up to management and leave the SMT/Governers to mull it over.

    To put a further spanner in the works, what about BYOD (for example smart phones). It's very easy to access all the porn you want in your school with a smart phone connected to a mobile network (for bonus points you could even tether it to a computer). Do all your Internet access policies disappear because they aren't accessing the material over your network connection even though they are on school premises in school hours?
    Last edited by Geoff; 18th December 2012 at 01:06 PM.

  3. #33


    tom_newton's Avatar
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    FWIW, the nosslsearch vs. windows DNS issues.. we're working on a tool to rewrite connect headers, should let you deny google secure search without having to resort to dns tricks or https decryption. ETA Feb 13.

  4. #34
    pinemarten's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff View Post
    Do all your Internet access policies disappear because they aren't accessing the material over your network connection even though they are on school premises in school hours?
    No - but the policies should only relate to access via school-owned connections .
    Proving that may be another matter - but as long as children are allowed to BYOD they can bring their connection with them.

    Parents give up their right to complain about their child's access to unfiltered web the moment they buy them a web-enabled device ....location is irrelevant,
    eg. a child living next door to the school can just as easily access porn on his mobile in the playground as he can over the fence in his parents' garden!

  5. #35

    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinemarten View Post
    No - but the policies should only relate to access via school-owned connections .
    Proving that may be another matter - but as long as children are allowed to BYOD they can bring their connection with them.

    Parents give up their right to complain about their child's access to unfiltered web the moment they buy them a web-enabled device ....location is irrelevant,
    eg. a child living next door to the school can just as easily access porn on his mobile in the playground as he can over the fence in his parents' garden!
    There's an issue you're missing there though. There is still an issue of a child passing their unfiltered connection around to other kids in your school and *that* is your school's problem.

  6. #36

    GrumbleDook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinemarten View Post
    No - but the policies should only relate to access via school-owned connections .
    Proving that may be another matter - but as long as children are allowed to BYOD they can bring their connection with them.

    Parents give up their right to complain about their child's access to unfiltered web the moment they buy them a web-enabled device ....location is irrelevant,
    eg. a child living next door to the school can just as easily access porn on his mobile in the playground as he can over the fence in his parents' garden!
    There is also a reasonable challenge to the school policy on BYOD (esp if they have their own connection) in that because the schools allows / facilitates / develops the curriculum to make use of teh device, should anything happen (accessing harmful materials, cyberbullying) then the school has a responsibility to have taken all reasonable actions to ensure they are not Negligent to the risk of these happening.

    There have been some interesting discussions about this aspect online in the past.

  7. #37
    pinemarten's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    There's an issue you're missing there though. There is still an issue of a child passing their unfiltered connection around to other kids in your school and *that* is your school's problem.
    do you mean showing porn etc to other kids on their device?
    surely it then becomes a disciplinary issue, not a technical one? -same as passing around drugs/alcohol etc..
    so the onus of sharing something bad rests on the willingness of the sharer to share it , (whether it be in school or elsewhere).

  8. #38
    pinemarten's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrumbleDook View Post
    the school has a responsibility to have taken all reasonable actions to ensure they are not Negligent to the risk of these happening..
    yes, agree but what is 'reasonable' ?.....therein lies the issue.

  9. #39

    GrumbleDook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinemarten View Post
    yes, agree but what is 'reasonable' ?.....therein lies the issue.
    Have a read on ALARP for a better understanding.

  10. Thanks to GrumbleDook from:

    pinemarten (20th December 2012)

  11. #40

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    Wow this thread has blown up with replies, I'm glad people are becoming aware about the situation!

    Another thing that has come to light over christmas, because im still pushing the filtering issues with LGFL.

    This issue isn't technically an LGFL issue, however it took me to find the issue before being told it was an issue, which i thought was alittle wrong.

    We were checking the whole safe search feature on LGFL, it is to my knowledge if you block the category 'safe search' you disallow users to change the 'safe search' on the following websites; Google, Yahoo, MetaCrawler, Live Search, Excite, Lycos, AOL Search, Dog Pile, Hot Bot, Bing, Ask, YouTube.

    However we went onto excite.co.uk, disabled safe search and typed in porn, under a kids filtering, and BAM loads of porn, and the safe search was turned off.

    So I let LGFL know, and I got the following response.

    Hi Ryan,

    We have raised the issue of Excite with Netsweeper and they have informed us that the Safe Search facility on excite.com is not working as advertised and they have raised tickets with the search engine to try and fix the issue. As a consequence, and until it is fixed, we would therefore recommend that your school blocks access to the site at local level as this would clearly be a concern.
    Now of course this isn't a problem with LGFL, however if they knew about this then they should have put out a notice? Anyway I would strongly suggest you block excite./.co.uk

    Ryan
    Last edited by RJohnson91; 7th January 2013 at 11:23 AM.

  12. #41

    Geoff's Avatar
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    This is the basic problem though isn't' it? You're endlessly playing whack a mole with no end in sight. It doesn't matter what you do technically there will always be something you miss or are unable to combat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff View Post
    This is the basic problem though isn't' it? You're endlessly playing whack a mole with no end in sight. It doesn't matter what you do technically there will always be something you miss or are unable to combat.

    Oh I agree entirely, web filtering will never be 100%, hell it will never be 60% safe. The internet is too vast to be censored completely.

    However it seems we have to play 'whack a mole' with LGFL because they simply don't let us know about issues, they very much play 'head in the sand'.

    So I will continue to test their 'blocks' and 'filters' until futher problems are uncovered, and when they respond with 'Oh we knew about that, here is how to fix it', I'll let everyone know on here!

    But if people think that the filtering is top notch i'll

    Ryan

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    Any one solved this issue yet?

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    Quote Originally Posted by pjhunt View Post
    Any one solved this issue yet?
    Not that I have been told, it is still blocked at our school.

    Filtering still not cracked up to anything decent.

    Ryan

  16. #45

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    Re: The children at YOUR SCHOOL can access porn images under the LGFL filtering...

    Quote Originally Posted by pjhunt View Post
    Any one solved this issue yet?
    A full proof solution, pull the power from the modem. There is never going to be a 100% solution, closest you'll get is a whitelist of sites.

    As part of a managed service you will only get the amount of effort they need to keep most on the service, if you want control you need to take it in house and take responsibility directly rather than handing it off.

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