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Licensing Questions Thread, schools agreement - advice in Technical; i am just looking at licences at present and am wondering if the MS Schools Agreement would be worth our ...
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    gibbo_ap's Avatar
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    schools agreement - advice

    i am just looking at licences at present and am wondering if the MS Schools Agreement would be worth our while?

    we have 380 (will be 468 soon) curriculum stations and 13 admin, currently running office 2003 (dont know at present how many are 2007 compatible looking into this at the moment)

    we use office, have server 2003, exchange, and running cc3 but looking to cc4 soon.

    i am also looking to upgrade to office 2007 or 2010 soon, my understanding of MSSA is that in will make my life easier regarding licences of ms gubbins anyway.

    with cc4 i will be looking at Windows 7 on new stations when supported.

    what are peoples experences?

    what are the problems moving from how we are (just purchasing as and when) to moving to the schools agreement

    does being an RM school complicate this?

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    teejay's Avatar
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    I thought cc3/4 covered your licensing? MS SA is really for vanilla networks as you use it to buy all the server and client access licensing for all machines.

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    gibbo_ap's Avatar
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    am thinking more office licences

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    teejay's Avatar
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    Schools Agreement wouldn't be the right programme to be on as you'll end up paying for stuff you already pay for through your RM agreement! Speak to RM as they have a good deal on licences, other than that speak to a MS edu reseller who will be able to get you the correct number of licenses you need on one of the other academic licence programmes.

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    garethedmondson's Avatar
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    We have just purchased a School Agreement with Work at Home rights for our staff. Best thing we have done - any MS licencing worries are gone.

    We are licenced for Windows 7, all the CALS are in there. We are also licenced for Office 2007 and will be for Office 2010 when that is released.

    The staff are chuffed that we invested in them. We have to police the work at home agreement and disks are booked out and back in. A contract is also signed by the member of staff.

    Quick chance here to say thanks to Dan at WStore for being extremely tolerant whilst I asked a lot of questions and while my line managers wavered over the decision.

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    WStore_Dan (8th December 2009)

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    Ric_'s Avatar
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    I'm pushing through our new Schools Agreement at the moment... we used to use Select.

    The biggest advantages are that you can roughly budget an annual licensing cost (which bursars like) and you don't have massive lump sums to pay out when Office needs upgrading or you need new CALs for a piece of server software.

    The Software Assurance part of a Schools Agreement also means that you will be entitled to use Windows 7 Enterprise (the one that contains all the decent new features and cannot be licensed without Software Asssurance) and, as mentioned above, gets you home use rights for your staff.

    It is also possible to add on student licensing for Office, etc. which allows them to keep a copy of Office after 'graduating'.

    The downside, of couse, is that it aint cheap - you would have to be replacing all your software every three years to make it pay for itself... it does make life easier though.

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    DMcCoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by garethedmondson View Post
    We have just purchased a School Agreement with Work at Home rights for our staff. Best thing we have done - any MS licencing worries are gone.

    We are licenced for Windows 7, all the CALS are in there. We are also licenced for Office 2007 and will be for Office 2010 when that is released.

    The staff are chuffed that we invested in them. We have to police the work at home agreement and disks are booked out and back in. A contract is also signed by the member of staff.

    Quick chance here to say thanks to Dan at WStore for being extremely tolerant whilst I asked a lot of questions and while my line managers wavered over the decision.
    Better to use the Home Use Programme part as this is a direct agreement between the staff and Microsoft, requires no keys/DVDs and the staff can use it for non work use, which is a restriction of WAH rights.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ric_ View Post
    I'm pushing through our new Schools Agreement at the moment... we used to use Select.

    The biggest advantages are that you can roughly budget an annual licensing cost (which bursars like) and you don't have massive lump sums to pay out when Office needs upgrading or you need new CALs for a piece of server software.

    The Software Assurance part of a Schools Agreement also means that you will be entitled to use Windows 7 Enterprise (the one that contains all the decent new features and cannot be licensed without Software Asssurance) and, as mentioned above, gets you home use rights for your staff.

    It is also possible to add on student licensing for Office, etc. which allows them to keep a copy of Office after 'graduating'.

    The downside, of couse, is that it aint cheap - you would have to be replacing all your software every three years to make it pay for itself... it does make life easier though.
    It depends on how the school moves forward when migrating version of office etc. At our place we are on office 2003 license on select agreement. For the last few years we have been buying office 2007 pro licenses (because you can't buy office 2003 licenses) and using the downgrade rights to install office 2003. This does make it a tad easier on the cost side that when we do plan to upgrade to office 2007 we will probably more than half of the office licenses already there and will only need purchses the other to cover the site. It all depends on your scenario and how often you migrate to the version of office. Even if office 2010 comes out that we will not be upgrading to this i.e. too new, compatibility etc. For us it works because the bulk cost (i.e. £9-10K is every 4 years rather than annually which helps.;

    For the OS license the SA does make it easier but then again how often is this done? We will probably cop a fair amount of cost of upgrading to windows 7 but this will be one-off cost of few years anyways so it still works out cheaper. Again i should re-iterate this is for our school how we manage the licenses, all school's requirements are different and therefore you need to think about how it will fit in which what you want to do in regards to ICT strategy for HW and SW upgrades/migrations etc.

    Ash.

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    garethedmondson (9th December 2009)

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    teejay's Avatar
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    You can also do a bit of a sneaky with it, if you pay your annual SA fee just before you buy your PC's you don't have to count them until the following years SA count

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    garethedmondson (9th December 2009)

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    Ric_'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spc-rocket View Post
    For the OS license the SA does make it easier but then again how often is this done? We will probably cop a fair amount of cost of upgrading to windows 7 but this will be one-off cost of few years anyways so it still works out cheaper. Again i should re-iterate this is for our school how we manage the licenses, all school's requirements are different and therefore you need to think about how it will fit in which what you want to do in regards to ICT strategy for HW and SW upgrades/migrations etc.

    Ash.
    The sneakyness on Microsoft's part of requiring Software Assurance to get Windows 7 Enterprise means that you will end up with some kind of annual cost (at the very least Select+ which gives you 2 years of SA).

    With Microsoft now sticking to a better upgrade cycle of approx. 6 years per full server OS upgrade, CAL licensing costs can be a nightmare.

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    garethedmondson (9th December 2009)

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    Quote Originally Posted by teejay View Post
    Schools Agreement wouldn't be the right programme to be on as you'll end up paying for stuff you already pay for through your RM agreement!
    As a CC3 network manager with a Schools Agreement, I disagree. For a start, you can certainly get a Schools Agreement just for Office if you want, - I got a quote 6 months ago for exactly that from RM, you just have to ask for it to be licensed that way instead of buying outright. I ended up getting a better price elsewhere, however.

    If you want to upgrade to Windows 7, this is a trickier balance to strike. Your existing RM licences will not cover this, so getting that on SA will still not be paying for stuff you already have. The Windows licences on SA are upgrade licenses, so you have to have an existing Windows licence for the machine already anyway - so you haven't wasted your money on the Windows licences the machines shipped with. On the other hand, you might end up paying twice in this case when you buy new machines from RM in future that may ship with 7.

    In terms of the upfront vs. annual cost issue, it might be worth having a chat with your finance team. In many schools I've dealt with, the finance team actually prefer a (near-)constant annual cost as it's easier to justify as an annual running cost on the budget than a big capital expenditure every few years. This is especially true in private schools, but many state schools I've talked to feel the same way. YMMV.

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    garethedmondson (9th December 2009)

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    IrritableTech's Avatar
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    Although we are a high school, after talking to MS reps at Bett last year (and numerous conversations on the phone afterwards) we managed to get a campus agreement rather than the schools.

    This saves us a massive amount of money each year and made moving from select to campus a real no brainer.

    I expect we're not unique; we have an adult ed centre on site, and some off site provision which helped us convince M$ to give us the campus agreement.

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    cookie_monster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by terrorvis View Post
    Although we are a high school, after talking to MS reps at Bett last year (and numerous conversations on the phone afterwards) we managed to get a campus agreement rather than the schools.

    This saves us a massive amount of money each year and made moving from select to campus a real no brainer.

    I expect we're not unique; we have an adult ed centre on site, and some off site provision which helped us convince M$ to give us the campus agreement.


    What exactly did you need to qualify for a campus agreement and how does this save you so much money?

    If you don't mind me asking

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    Ric_'s Avatar
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    @cookie_monster: If you speak with a 'big' MS reseller (that's the term they use IIRC) they will be able to put you in touch directly with a MS licensing bod.

    I spoke to Faith Warburton at Insight who put me in touch with a lovely lady called Eve at Microsoft. After discussing several options, we eventually found a nicely balanced solution.
    Last edited by john; 9th December 2009 at 11:32 PM. Reason: fixed your spelling of the account managers name ;)

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    IrritableTech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cookie_monster View Post
    What exactly did you need to qualify for a campus agreement and how does this save you so much money?

    If you don't mind me asking
    SA is based on workstations... we have about 460. CA is based on FTE staff... we have about 120. Schools agreement was quoted to me at about £27 per workstation, campus was quoted at £32 per FTE staff.

    I'm told that the schools agreement can't be used on a split site (this would require two agreements) and the schools agreement wouldn't cover our Adult Ed site. The M$ rep eventually got fed up with me contacting him, and got his superiors to agree a campus. He let our account manager at our reseller know, and we completed the paperwork.

    We did look into getting an agreement to cover our federation primaries too, but this was denied by M$.

  21. Thanks to IrritableTech from:

    tmcd35 (21st January 2010)

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