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Licensing Questions Thread, A dreaded copyright question in Technical; I think this may be the most appropriate subforum, though please feel free to educate me! There are two scenarios, ...
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    A dreaded copyright question

    I think this may be the most appropriate subforum, though please feel free to educate me!

    There are two scenarios, and I'm wondering if there's an allowance for them in schools.

    A: Teacher has made a number of current music files available on the network for pupils to use in their work.
    B: Teacher has ripped a music track from an online video to use in class.

    From what I understand, both situations would involve asking permission from the copyright holder. Can anyone clarify further?

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    CamelMan's Avatar
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    I looked into education copyright and it does differ a little from regular copyright (btw Im no expert and found myself going around in circles at times)

    My understanding is:
    A: Depending on where the music came from it might be ok - there is a term used called "fair use" which excuses alot of things for education. If the teacher is ripping CD's and sharing them with the kids I'd say thats a no no. If they are allowing them to use bits of music here and there this might be considered fair use*
    B: I'm guessing youtube -> this is against the T&C's of the use of the site so would be a no without permission.

    *might be of help: Education World: Is Fair Use a License to Steal?

    Good luck - its a mine field!

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  4. Thanks to fiza from:

    CamelMan (20th February 2013)

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    CamelMan's Avatar
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    Thank you - thats the site I was trying to re find!

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    localzuk's Avatar
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    One of the things to remember is the music has to be legally purchased in the first place - you can't download pirated files to use for education.

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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    One of the things to remember is the music has to be legally purchased in the first place - you can't download pirated files to use for education.
    Which means you can show me / an auditor the receipt any time I ask, right?

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    dhicks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CamelMan View Post
    there is a term used called "fair use" which excuses alot of things for education.
    Bear in mind that the link you posted was discussing US copyright law, which is different to that in the UK - if anything, I think Fair Use policies have tended to actually be more restrictive in the UK than the US. I can't remember if it's legal to format-shift media you own yet, i.e. rip stuff from CD and store on a harddrive for your own personal use - I seem to remember new ligislation to cover that was either coming soon or had just been implemented. To take a track that you own, rip it from CD and legally play it to a class, you need to ensure your school is licensed - most actually are, paying an anual fee to PRS or similar, check the PRS website for details.

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    I'm trying to get to the bottom of exactly what is allowed, so that I can make a presentation to SMT. From the link in this thread and other research I've been looking at, the PRS and similar licences are required to allow performing of the music, but they still don't permit ripping music.

    I have to say I quite strongly object to that, because trying to ensure all of the CDs in school remain playable is nigh on impossible, never mind keeping track of which teacher had it last. We need the same right as you have with software, i.e. take one copy for backup.

    Another thing that I haven't got my head around is what happens if the school buys music via iTunes and our iTunes library is on the file server. What restrictions am I supposed to put in place?

    And obviously, we're not allowed to rip stuff from YouTube, but what about streaming from it? Can we assume that whoever uploaded it sorted copyright? or that Google are managing it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmak View Post
    I'm trying to get to the bottom of exactly what is allowed, so that I can make a presentation to SMT. From the link in this thread and other research I've been looking at, the PRS and similar licences are required to allow performing of the music, but they still don't permit ripping music.

    I have to say I quite strongly object to that, because trying to ensure all of the CDs in school remain playable is nigh on impossible, never mind keeping track of which teacher had it last. We need the same right as you have with software, i.e. take one copy for backup.

    Another thing that I haven't got my head around is what happens if the school buys music via iTunes and our iTunes library is on the file server. What restrictions am I supposed to put in place?

    And obviously, we're not allowed to rip stuff from YouTube, but what about streaming from it? Can we assume that whoever uploaded it sorted copyright? or that Google are managing it?
    It's enough to make your head spin. After too much reading, I'm still of the same understanding: making a copy requires permission unless the license explicity states otherwise. Or it's out of copyright, of course.

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    dhicks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmak View Post
    Can we assume that whoever uploaded it sorted copyright? or that Google are managing it?
    Yes, Google sort out copyright, but do note that that's not the same as being licensed for public performance (i.e. in assembly) of that track - make sure your school's PRS license is up-to-date.

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    This is a subject that frustrates me immensely. I regularly get old video tapes with films that have been taped off the telly or even original copies and get asked to copy them for archive sake. Techincally its illegal but most staff seem to think education are immune from prosecution which really annoys me. I guarantee they will always say its for education use when they want it copied to get away with it thinking that makes it all better.

    We also get students ripping stuff of websites such as youtube for use in their presentations which as far as the teacher is concerened is perfectly fine and just necessary for them to do their coursework. The excuses are that they have to show its their own choice or topic and resource to get high marks and if the resources are what a teacher provides them it doesnt get very good marks. The network has loads of bits of video like this and i cant just remove them and mess up their projects but i cant let it continue either.

    Im looking for concrete answers as to what is/isnt allowed for educational purposes and why those who set these courses dont provide resources that are legally usable.

    Any ideas guys?

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    CamelMan's Avatar
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    5.1 YouTube hereby grants you permission to access and use the Service, subject to the following express conditions, and you agree that your failure to adhere to any of these conditions shall constitute a breach of these Terms on your part:
    A. you agree not to distribute any part of or parts of the Website or the Service, including but not limited to any Content, in any medium without YouTube's prior written authorisation, unless YouTube makes available the means for such distribution through functionality offered by the Service (such as the YouTube Player);
    B. you agree not to alter or modify any part of the Website or any of the Service (including but not limited to the YouTube Player and its related technologies);
    C. you agree not to access Content through any technology or means other than the video playback pages of the Website itself, the YouTube Player, or such other means as YouTube may explicitly designate for this purpose;

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