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Licensing Questions Thread, Hell with Microsoft Licensing!!!!! :( in Technical; Need some help here guys, been trying to get this sorted, but different companies seem to be telling us different ...
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    pritchardavid's Avatar
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    Hell with Microsoft Licensing!!!!! :(

    Need some help here guys, been trying to get this sorted, but different companies seem to be telling us different things, its even got to the point the that our agreement is expired!! We have something like 30 days to get it sorted.

    What we want/need

    • 135x Staff FTE EES - Desktop Education Package (Enterprise CALs, Office, Windows, MDOP)



    • 8x SQL Server Per Core (Would this be fine for two dedicated virtual servers, 4 cores in each, would both of these be able to hack all these products, running between them, SharePoint, Lync, APP-V, System Centre Suite, 2x small databases for two pieces of SEN software, or is more cores/virtual servers needed ?



    • 6x Server Datacentre
    • 7x Server Standard
    • 30x Multipoint CALs
    • 3x Multipoint Server
    • 7x System Centre Standard (Management Server Licence)
    • 6x System Centre Enterprise (Management Server Licence)
    • 1x UAG Server
    • 135x UAG CALs
    • 1x UAG External Connector
    • 1x SharePoint Server
    • 1x Exchange Server Standard
    • 1x Lync Server
    • 2x Remote Desktop External Connectors (For Students)
    • 135x Remote Desktop CALs for Staff
    • 135x UAG CALs
    • 1x UAG External Connector

    Things I’m Not Sure On
    I have heard that if students use their own computers at home and access any services the CALs from the Desktop Education Package using Staff FTE EES is not valid. I heard the CALs are only valid accessing services from equipment/devices owned by the Academy. Is this true?
    So this would mean students can’t

    • Login to Remote Desktop Server externally because they don’t have valid server CALs.
    • Use Office on the Remote Desktop Server externally, as they don’t have a valid Office licence.
    • Use Exchange externally because they don’t have valid Exchange CALs.
    • Use Lync Server Externally because they don’t have valid Lync CALs (That’s fine I think. We will only want staff to use this I think, need to check this)
    • Use SharePoint Externally because they don’t have valid SharePoint CALs.

    UAG – Does this use Staff FTE count and if so, can students use this externally with the UAG External Connector?

    Sorry for the long post. J
    Last edited by pritchardavid; 3rd February 2013 at 10:49 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pritchardavid View Post
    I have heard that if students use their own computers at home and access any services the CALs from the Desktop Education Package using Staff FTE EES is not valid. I heard the CALs are only valid accessing services from equipment/devices owned by the Academy. Is this true?
    So this would mean students can’t

    • Login to Remote Desktop Server externally because they don’t have valid server CALs.
    • Use Office on the Remote Desktop Server externally, as they don’t have a valid Office licence.
    • Use Exchange externally because they don’t have valid Exchange CALs.
    • Use Lync Server Externally because they don’t have valid Lync CALs (That’s fine I think. We will only want staff to use this I think, need to check this)
    • Use SharePoint Externally because they don’t have valid SharePoint CALs.
    That sounds about right - to license office at home (you need and office pro license to run it over terminal services) you need the 365 A3 plan @.90 per student per month.

    Compare Office 365 Plans and Pricing for Schools - Office 365

    I think with exchange you need the external connector license.
    Last edited by CyberNerd; 3rd February 2013 at 10:20 PM.

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    pritchardavid's Avatar
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    Seems not for Exchange, just had a search - Office 365 comes just a tad too expensive 27k (1.90 x 12 for months x 1200 for about number of students we have), that's without anything else. There is a option for students called student options, wondering if you can choose what you want from that, surly we would only need SharePoint, Exchange, Windows Server CALs & Office and maybe UAG if the External Connector is not Remote Desktop where students can use that. Maybe move students to free office 365 for Exchange, so we don't have to buy Exchange CALs, only problem with that is I want the 2013 edition, think that is still running 2010 ................. Exchange External connector licence details

    If you have external users (e.g., business partners, suppliers, customers, retirees, and alumni) who need to access your Exchange server, the external connector license grants access to the Exchange server by an unlimited number of these external users.
    Last edited by pritchardavid; 3rd February 2013 at 11:16 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pritchardavid View Post
    Seems not for Exchange, just had a search - Office 365 comes just a tad too expensive 27k (1.90 x 12 for months x 1200 for about number of students we have), that's without anything else.
    Yeah, the pricing is insane if you want students to use ms office at home or BYOD and get all of the SharePoint functionality. Our solution was simply to ditch ms office and use a mix of Google apps and libre office. Its saving us 40k per year and staff/students get access to all their files on all devices with all the collaboration features they need.

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    tmcd35's Avatar
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    You're right about SQL per core. It's sold as a minimum of 4-cores per instance so an 8-core license would net you 2 instances. That said your System Center stuff each comes with their own SQL standard license. So for each individual item in the System Center suite you can run them on their own individual SQL servers separate from everything else. As for the rest I can't say but generally, if you chuck enough RAM at it I'm SQL Server could cope with most things

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    synaesthesia's Avatar
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    If you're not sure, fire an email to the guys at Phoenix Software - info@phoenixs.co.uk - these guys are fantastically helpful (and patient which is a must, especially when you've got something as complicated as MS licensing and muppets like me trying to understand it!) who are really good at explaining things in plain English to you. If you tell them exactly what you need, they will happily let you know the most cost effective way of getting it.

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    We have always run our licensing questions by @Millgate and he has always come back with the answers (and pricing) we were looking for

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    X-13's Avatar
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    It's things like this that make me want to move away from Microsoft...

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    Millgate's Avatar
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    Just sent an email to our MS guy for you David. I'll let you know asap

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    tmcd35's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by X-13 View Post
    It's things like this that make me want to move away from Microsoft...
    I agree, but what to? For all it's faults AD and GPO's are amazingly powerful and I'm yet to see any competing system that can match, let alone better, it. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you can't effectively manage networks with Linux or OS X or Netware, etc, but there is something about AD that makes network management a relative breeze, IMHO.

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    AngryTechnician's Avatar
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    This sort of nonsense where MS partners don't seem to understand the pricing model is one of the things that @witch, @elsiegee40 and I had a blast about at a meeting with the Microsoft UK education managers a couple of years back. Unfortunately, Microsoft were (and still are) convinced that all their partners understand the licensing perfectly.

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    tmcd35's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AngryTechnician View Post
    Unfortunately, Microsoft were (and still are) convinced that all their partners understand the licensing perfectly.


    Microsoft don't understand their own licensing; what hope do the resellers have?

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    Quote Originally Posted by AngryTechnician View Post
    This sort of nonsense where MS partners don't seem to understand the pricing model is one of the things that @witch, @elsiegee40 and I had a blast about at a meeting with the Microsoft UK education managers a couple of years back. Unfortunately, Microsoft were (and still are) convinced that all their partners understand the licensing perfectly.
    I don't think its that the partners don't understand the licensing model - I'm sure they know full well the real costs of supplying MSOffice at home, and that schools won't be able to afford it. If schools will move away from MS because of this it will hit the re-sellers revenue stream.
    We've had several VDI and terminal services specialist who basically encouraged us to run MSSoftware in a way that we know was unlicensed just so they could get a sale.

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    There are other Student options available now especially around Office - your AER or LAR (or MS Business Manager) will be able to talk to you about these.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KeithMPhoenix View Post
    There are other Student options available now especially around Office - your AER or LAR (or MS Business Manager) will be able to talk to you about these.
    well could you give us a ball park figure that would allow us to run 1750 copies of MSOffice on students home pc's via terminal service? - MS said it was the A3 plan@1.90 per user per month ==40,000 per year + the 1750 copies of TS License CAL's @10.50 ea.

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