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Jokes/Interweb Things Thread, On the spot fines for bad driving in Fun Stuff; Originally Posted by jinnantonnixx Pros and cons - I can see wealthy drivers nodding their head; a fine here, a ...
  1. #16

    teejay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jinnantonnixx View Post
    Pros and cons - I can see wealthy drivers nodding their head; a fine here, a fine there, get out of jail free (or at least keep the points at bay).
    If you read the article, they can get up to 3 points for each offence. As these are on the spot, they can't do the 'wife was driving, son was driving' trick to spread the points around.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nephilim View Post
    20% less than the speed limit is considered dangerous driving as it CAUSES more accidents than it prevents...so doing <24mph in a 30mph zone is a risk, as is doing <48mph in a 60mph. Anything between the 20% and the limit is deemed safe (Driving examiner told me that once).
    Surely the accidents are caused by other drivers taking risks because they are frustrated by the "slow" driver, though? Whilst the aforementioned old duffers are probably just driving slowly, the person who slows down to 20mph in a busy street with cars parked either side and a lot of pedestrian traffic is probably going to annoy the BMW driver who thinks it is his right to drive at the speed limit (if not above) at all times. Whilst the slower driver may be what causes the other driver to take risks and thus cause an accident, surely the fault is ultimately with the latter?

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    Quote Originally Posted by nephilim View Post
    20% less than the speed limit is considered dangerous driving as it CAUSES more accidents than it prevents...so doing <24mph in a 30mph zone is a risk, as is doing <48mph in a 60mph. Anything between the 20% and the limit is deemed safe (Driving examiner told me that once).
    Your driving examiner was talking utter tosh.

  4. #19

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    "Failing to make appropriate progress" is a fail on the test. Why should it be different AFTER you've passed?

    FWIW, I was not referring to busy town roads with lots of parked cars, but a rural A road which has only recently been progressively restricted form 60to in some places 30. The road hasn't changed at all; it was good for 60 five years ago, now there are people cluttering it up at <30. I suspect that there are councillors living on it that like the quiet.

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    Doing 20% less that the speed limit is considered a risk (it is not considered dangerous, only that it is a possible cause for other drivers taking risks which could result in dangerous situations) but only in areas where driving can be expected to be at consistent speeds. On more single carriageway roads which are national speed limit it is a variable limit depending on the type of vehicle you are driving. It is reasonable to expect to be behind vehicles which may be driving far slower that 20% below the limit. Those drivers who are at the extreme end (agricultural vehicles, slow moving vehicles, etc) are expected to take regular action to allow the flow of traffic to resume, but this is not that case of goods vehicles which are speed limited or who have a lower speed limit to the maximum on that road.

    There is never an excuse to rant about someone going 45mph on a national speed limit road. If you say that it means that it takes you far longer to get somewhere than it should do then you have not planned your journey properly as you *know* that some vehicles are limited to 40mph on the road and you could be behind them all the way.

    The whole idea of a speed being safe or not is purely down to they way people are taught to drive to the limit instead of accepting the limit is what you should do to get the little extra to overtake if needed.

    There is also the category of driver who enjoy the journey ... the destination is unimportant. Life is not a race track ...

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    Theblacksheep's Avatar
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    I think a contestant on HIGNFY said a Michael Winner quote: "Do you know it only cost £60 and you can drive in a bus lane all day!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew_C View Post
    "Failing to make appropriate progress" is a fail on the test. Why should it be different AFTER you've passed?

    FWIW, I was not referring to busy town roads with lots of parked cars, but a rural A road which has only recently been progressively restricted form 60to in some places 30. The road hasn't changed at all; it was good for 60 five years ago, now there are people cluttering it up at <30. I suspect that there are councillors living on it that like the quiet.
    Or people are taking stupid risks on bends. Just because a road is 60mph it does not mean you can travel at 60mph for the whole length of it. Too many people forget you have to slow down at times so many areas have taken the action to force it by changing the speed limit. They also try to apply it consistently across a county / area ... but it takes time to assess it, do the relevant checks and follow other parts of the process.

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    What is determined as bad/careless driving? Is it black and white?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew_C View Post
    "Failing to make appropriate progress" is a fail on the test. Why should it be different AFTER you've passed?

    FWIW, I was not referring to busy town roads with lots of parked cars, but a rural A road which has only recently been progressively restricted form 60to in some places 30. The road hasn't changed at all; it was good for 60 five years ago, now there are people cluttering it up at <30. I suspect that there are councillors living on it that like the quiet.
    Well if you are referring to my comment "utter tosh" perhaps I have misunderstood nephilim's use of "Dangerous Driving" which is an actual offence. There are no ACPO guidelines, nor is there anything in law that says that "<20% of the speed limit" = dangerous driving. Sure you will fail your driving test if you consistently fail to keep up with the traffic or make satisfactory progress but that simply means you are not deemed to have aquired the necessary set of skills to an appropriate level, it does not mean that <20% of the posted limit = dangerous driving in ANY circumstances.

  10. #25


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    Quote Originally Posted by CHR1S View Post
    What is determined as bad/careless driving? Is it black and white?
    No, it's not; but there are guidelines. "Driving without due care and attention" is usually used where the highway code HAS been violated and that is likely to be the cause of an accident. So pulling out of a junction without looking, swerving around the road because you are fiddling with the radio. "Dangerous Driving" is much more serious and it's less usual that it's used when there hasn't actually been an accident, but even with an accident the charge is much more likely to be "driving without due care" because with dangerous driving you have to substantiate an intentional reckless disregard.

    If someone does a dangerous overtake because the car in front was moving too slowly for them, then the fault is 100% with the person doing the overtake.

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    I find this slightly worrying as you could well end up with police officers choosing to stretch the limits of "bad driving" in order to get their quotas up for the day in the same way they do with hidden speed cameras just after the limit changes etc.

    If it means the idiots who tailgate because I refuse to break the 70mph limit get fined it might not be such a bad thing though...

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    This is a strange thing really ... folk moan that police don't target problem spots ... and then when they do folk comment that they are only ever doing the 'bad roads' ... damned if they do, damned if they don't.

    It is also worth looking at the application of this for all aspects of careless driving (which it is likely to include). There is already clear laws and rulings on the use of mobile devices whilst driving, but don't forget that if you are not in full control of your vehicle due to things like unscrewing the top off a bottle of coke, unwrapping and eating a sandwich, fiddling with the radio, etc ... then you will also be dealt with. The key thing to remember is that this is if you are not in full control of your car. If you are then it is unlikely that you will be stopped.

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    We as humans make mistakes, I just worry that an honest mistake could gain you 3 points and a fine.

  14. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by CHR1S View Post
    We as humans make mistakes, I just worry that an honest mistake could gain you 3 points and a fine.
    being half an inch from the car in front of you or dropping into the left hand lane to blaze past someone isn't an honest mistake. Main reasons would be impatience or arrogance (not in all cases but i'd say 99%) but it isn't a mistake

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    Honest mistakes are something you learn from. The proposed plan is to deal harsher with repeat offenders as well as to allow police to use opportunities to get people who make 'honest mistakes' onto educational courses. Police Officers will still be expected to apply discretion and there should be safeguards in place to stop it from becoming part of a target culture.

    Remember that an honest mistake can still get someone killed.



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