+ Post New Thread
Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 53
Jokes/Interweb Things Thread, Tasered for being blind in Fun Stuff; Originally Posted by localzuk Sorry but that's bull****! Tasers ARE lethal. Amnesty International have also said hundreds of people have ...
  1. #16

    aerospacemango's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Northants
    Posts
    1,994
    Thank Post
    283
    Thanked 249 Times in 200 Posts
    Blog Entries
    2
    Rep Power
    296
    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    Sorry but that's bull****! Tasers ARE lethal. Amnesty International have also said hundreds of people have died from tasers.

    "Since 2001, more than 500 people have died following Taser stuns according to Amnesty International, which said in February that stricter guidelines for Taser use were "imperative." But in only a few dozen cases, medical examiners have ruled that the Taser contributed to the death. In some cases, other factors, such as drug use and prior medical conditions, also played roles." - Heart study finds Tasers may cause deaths

    Thing is, 8 deaths as a direct result. Many hundreds from indirect causes (ie. the taser causing other things to get worse or existing conditons etc...).

    As I said above, Taser's were introduced as a direct replacement for lethal force weapons (ie. guns). So, the requirements for their discharge should be the same as with using guns.

    If I make a mistake, I won't kill someone. If they do, they can. That man has already had strokes, this sort of shock can cause another.
    Good discussion skills there.....

    Anyway, back to the point...

    Tasers ARE lethal....I was questioning the quoted "...lost count of the number of stories I've seen in the news...". I would have thought that that was quite obvious from my post. I was putting forward my side that there simply are NOT that amount that get reported in the UK press. This makes it even more disturbing when they are. The hyperbole used in that sentence was what was being questioned.

    Please note.... At no point have I accused your post of being bull****! I also read that Amnesty Int page BEFORE posting to here!

    *EDIT* You may also notice that in my post I refer to the hundreds claimed in the USA. Please read my post a little closer next time.... Thank you!
    Last edited by aerospacemango; 17th October 2012 at 04:00 PM.

  2. #17

    localzuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Minehead
    Posts
    17,879
    Thank Post
    518
    Thanked 2,486 Times in 1,928 Posts
    Blog Entries
    24
    Rep Power
    838
    Quote Originally Posted by aerospacemango View Post
    Good discussion skills there.....

    Anyway, back to the point...

    Tasers ARE lethal....I was questioning the quoted "...lost count of the number of stories I've seen in the news...". I would have thought that that was quite obvious from my post. I was putting forward my side that there simply are NOT that amount that get reported in the UK press. This makes it even more disturbing when they are. The hyperbole used in that sentence was what was being questioned.

    Please note.... At no point have I accused your post of being bull****! I also read that Amnesty Int page BEFORE posting to here!
    Your post said that the officer should basically get told off and that's it. That's what I call bull****. It annoys me a lot as you're basically saying that an officer risking the life of an innocent man is a slap on the wrist offence, hence my anger.

    The original poster didn't say UK. They just referred to having lost count of deaths. It was you who decided to arbitrarily limit it down to UK for some reason. Does a US taser death not matter then? The hyperbole that you refer to was not hyperbole in my view, it was actually based pretty firmly in fact - hence the link I posted.

    And your reply has focussed on only one aspect of my post, ignoring all the other aspects. For example the Taser being a replacement for lethal force.
    Last edited by localzuk; 17th October 2012 at 04:06 PM.

  3. #18

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    London
    Posts
    13
    Thank Post
    7
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
    Rep Power
    6
    cant remember the source but a lot of organizations want them to be referred to as "less lethal" not "non lethal" due to the fact that 500 people have been killed in the US with taser in the last 10 years!

  4. #19

    aerospacemango's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Northants
    Posts
    1,994
    Thank Post
    283
    Thanked 249 Times in 200 Posts
    Blog Entries
    2
    Rep Power
    296
    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    Your post said that the officer should basically get told off and that's it. That's what I call bull****. It annoys me a lot as you're basically saying that an officer risking the life of an innocent man is a slap on the wrist offence, hence my anger.

    The original poster didn't say UK. They just referred to having lost count of deaths. It was you who decided to arbitrarily limit it down to UK for some reason. Does a US taser death not matter then? The hyperbole that you refer to was not hyperbole in my view, it was actually based pretty firmly in fact - hence the link I posted.
    It seems quite obvious to me that you completely fail to recognise what I was saying. One would assume that a poster that lives in Hampshire would be mainly dealing in the UK press. However, if @AMLightfoot wishes to dispel that assumption, and explain that she regularly reads international (local) press, then I am glad to back down on my assumption.

    I chose to focus on one point of your reply, as that is what I had done originally. I concentrated on the hyperbole of the original statement.

    You also seem to have missed that point where I agreed that taser are lethal, but please don't let that get in the way of your frothing mouth!

  5. #20

    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    North
    Posts
    1,840
    Thank Post
    25
    Thanked 91 Times in 71 Posts
    Rep Power
    51
    I've never been tasered but then again I respect the law, am a polite law abiding citizen who satys out of trouble.

    Anyone mentioned this being a police state yet? That usually gets wheeled out when something like this gets brought up.

    BBC News - Dale Cregan held after policewomen killed in Manchester

  6. #21

    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Nottingham, England
    Posts
    58
    Thank Post
    6
    Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts
    Rep Power
    8
    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    The original poster didn't say UK. They just referred to having lost count of deaths. It was you who decided to arbitrarily limit it down to UK for some reason. Does a US taser death not matter then? The hyperbole that you refer to was not hyperbole in my view, it was actually based pretty firmly in fact - hence the link I posted.
    It is a fair point to note that the Tasers which are available in the UK are very different from those available in the US. They are more carefully tested and regulated and in many cases are lower powered and therefore less likely to be lethal.

    Dave

  7. #22

    aerospacemango's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Northants
    Posts
    1,994
    Thank Post
    283
    Thanked 249 Times in 200 Posts
    Blog Entries
    2
    Rep Power
    296
    Quote Originally Posted by Simcfc73 View Post
    I've never been tasered but then again I respect the law, am a polite law abiding citizen who satys out of trouble.

    Anyone mentioned this being a police state yet? That usually gets wheeled out when something like this gets brought up.

    BBC News - Dale Cregan held after policewomen killed in Manchester
    And I'm willing to bet you've never killed someone by mistake either????

  8. #23


    AMLightfoot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Hampshire, England
    Posts
    2,196
    Thank Post
    373
    Thanked 634 Times in 403 Posts
    Rep Power
    267
    The assumption of hyperbole assumes I'm not counting the US news stories I see in various sensationalist news feeds, blogs I follow and links attached to other stories etc etc. Having 'lost count' indicates that I can't accurately put a number on the quantity of stories I've read. Easily more than 10 - certainly enough for me to not pay attention to how many I've read. Which is more than the UK deaths, true, but significantly less than the worldwide number of deaths. Perhaps I should have broadened my statement to say 'I've lost count of the number of stories where the poor judgement of police officers has caused death' - this number is presumably (given worldwide media) in the thousands if not more when you take into account the varying methods of death - shooting, being hit by a police car, dying in police custody due to neglect and/or beating, riot, tasing, being hit over the head, restrained in such as way as to result in suffocation, and so on.

    Either way, it is still disgraceful and surely indicative of misconduct that an officer tases an elderly man for no reason other than assumed threat based on misunderstanding. Blind or not, even if he'd had a walking stick, or a silver-coloured crutch, the shoot-first-ask-questions-later approach of this officer was inappropriate and the officer should be removed from any duty where he may make mistakes of this potential gravity again. Electrocuting ANYONE is dangerous, but the elderly aren't known for their robustness... The fall alone could have resulted in a fatal head injury and a stroke sufferer would be at increased risk of haemorrage by virtue of a pre-existing weakness in the blood supply to the brain.

    That being said, my father is 63 and he is reasonably robust, but being hit with a taser would still cause him significant issue - even if he has no effect from the electricity itself, a fall onto concrete/tarmac/paving of any unspecified description can break bones!
    Last edited by AMLightfoot; 17th October 2012 at 04:29 PM.

  9. #24

    aerospacemango's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Northants
    Posts
    1,994
    Thank Post
    283
    Thanked 249 Times in 200 Posts
    Blog Entries
    2
    Rep Power
    296
    Thank you for your clarification!

    Now, personally, I think that the policeman would have been better served to get in front of the man and challenge him. Perhaps that is what he will choose next time. The "shoot-first, ask-questions-later" policy can never be justified whether it's a gun or a taser, can it?

  10. #25

    localzuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Minehead
    Posts
    17,879
    Thank Post
    518
    Thanked 2,486 Times in 1,928 Posts
    Blog Entries
    24
    Rep Power
    838
    Quote Originally Posted by aerospacemango View Post
    Thank you for your clarification!

    Now, personally, I think that the policeman would have been better served to get in front of the man and challenge him. Perhaps that is what he will choose next time. The "shoot-first, ask-questions-later" policy can never be justified whether it's a gun or a taser, can it?
    Then why did you say:

    I believe a public apology from the policeman is necessary, but the pilloring of him, and others, is not really acceptable when they are trying to do their job.


    Why would that policy be unacceptable if the only outcome from it is 'oh dear, we did bad, sorry' when they get it wrong?

  11. #26


    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    1,047
    Thank Post
    42
    Thanked 161 Times in 93 Posts
    Rep Power
    143
    Taser's can cause fatalities, that much is obvious. So can peanut butter sandwich's , it doesn't mean we should ban peanut butter.

    Does the american list of taser deaths include civilian models that are widely used as self defense weapons? if so the high number could be down to incorrect training and misuse of the taser's.

    I think the police have a very important job in society, and a very hard job to do in general. If it had turned out to be a samurai sword a police officer approaching him would have been putting his life on the line, They should be able to defend themselves just like anyone else, and a Taser is still a better option than a gun or beating someone with a trungon.

    He showed bad judgement of the situation and should have handled it differently, and like all groups of people you get the bad apples with the good. Sometimes police officers as a whole seem to get bashed for any little mistake. They are often dealing with the most dangerous members of society, the most unstable members of society, and in situations like that mistakes will be made.

  12. #27
    mmoseley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Birmingham
    Posts
    752
    Thank Post
    109
    Thanked 105 Times in 80 Posts
    Blog Entries
    2
    Rep Power
    44
    103521.jpg wakizashi.jpg

    To me they dont look the same...Think that Police Officer needs an eye test!

  13. #28

    localzuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Minehead
    Posts
    17,879
    Thank Post
    518
    Thanked 2,486 Times in 1,928 Posts
    Blog Entries
    24
    Rep Power
    838
    I find it amazing that people look at this and can define it as a 'little mistake'...

    And bad apples with the good. I have quite a lot of experience dealing with the police now, and the vast majority of them were what I'd define as bad apples. More worried about statistics and wielding their power than actually doing the right, legal thing. I have had police lie direct to my face, I've had them lie about me and my friends in a court room, I've seen one attack a friend of mine who turned his head to be able to hear what he said (as my friend is partially deaf) and then claim my friend 'lunged at him', I've been followed, my friends at uni on average received 5 producers a week from the police in 'random' stops, I've had police threaten me with arrest for standing on a pavement, only backing down when our solicitor spoke to them and threatened them with legal action for wrongful arrest (threatening arrest wrongfully is classified as wrongful arrest still), the list could go on.

    Oh, and I've been pushed off a pavement into oncoming traffic by a cop and had my camera confiscated and photos deleted by one too. Lovely people.

    Interestingly, nearly all of that was through Lancashire police.

  14. #29


    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    1,047
    Thank Post
    42
    Thanked 161 Times in 93 Posts
    Rep Power
    143
    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    I find it amazing that people look at this and can define it as a 'little mistake'...

    And bad apples with the good. I have quite a lot of experience dealing with the police now, and the vast majority of them were what I'd define as bad apples. More worried about statistics and wielding their power than actually doing the right, legal thing. I have had police lie direct to my face, I've had them lie about me and my friends in a court room, I've seen one attack a friend of mine who turned his head to be able to hear what he said (as my friend is partially deaf) and then claim my friend 'lunged at him', I've been followed, my friends at uni on average received 5 producers a week from the police in 'random' stops, I've had police threaten me with arrest for standing on a pavement, only backing down when our solicitor spoke to them and threatened them with legal action for wrongful arrest (threatening arrest wrongfully is classified as wrongful arrest still), the list could go on.

    Oh, and I've been pushed off a pavement into oncoming traffic by a cop and had my camera confiscated and photos deleted by one too. Lovely people.

    Interestingly, nearly all of that was through Lancashire police.

    I have had absolutely no issues with police, they come across as helpful and do their best to catch criminals.

    Not sure why you get targeted so much, or if the police forces in Lancashire were trained alongside the special republican guard in Iraq, but based on every interaction I have had with police I really cant see where you are coming from. I guess it stems from your obvious hatred for them and i presume stand offish approach to them in general.

    Would much rather have a heavily regulated police force roaming the streets than a bunch of muggers and rapists personally.

    And in response to the picture difference of the stick and sword, like i said that officer showed bad judgement. He should have made more of an attempt to assess the danger to himself and the public before pulling the trigger, but it was reported by a member or members of public to be a sword, he was on his way to the pub so i'm assuming it was dark, and he shouted a verbal warning for the man to stop, which he ignored.

    Edit:

    Just noticed the story had been updated on the BBC site, a man was arrested in the area matching the same description carrying an actual samurai sword.
    Last edited by LiamH; 18th October 2012 at 09:11 AM.

  15. #30

    localzuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Minehead
    Posts
    17,879
    Thank Post
    518
    Thanked 2,486 Times in 1,928 Posts
    Blog Entries
    24
    Rep Power
    838
    My contact was due to being an animal rights activist - ie. standing on a street holding a placard, or handing out leaflets. Nothing illegal though.

    My approach to them has always been the same - if they want me to do something, they must justify their request with an actual valid law, not just have it come from random nonsense they make up. The simple fact remains - to a man, every police officer who came out to any protest we were engaged in tried to get us to move by lying to us, or by threatening us with arrest wrongfully. One of my friends has sued the police about a dozen times because of it, winning every single time.

SHARE:
+ Post New Thread
Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Should I go for Be value?
    By nicholab in forum General Chat
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 24th January 2012, 10:31 AM
  2. Spare part for vertical blinds needed
    By Dos_Box in forum General Chat
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 22nd November 2011, 05:52 PM
  3. Replies: 5
    Last Post: 25th January 2007, 11:22 PM
  4. Replies: 44
    Last Post: 16th January 2007, 07:32 PM

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •