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Internet Related/Filtering/Firewall Thread, LGfL 2.0 Problems in Technical; Originally Posted by esucmn 3) When pushed on what the point of these filters were given they had no restrictions ...
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    Quote Originally Posted by esucmn View Post
    3) When pushed on what the point of these filters were given they had no restrictions they said there were to stop spam.
    Hmmm, it's funny how I have never had a single spam message get through my google mail in 2 years and yet they don't have these type of restrictions to accomplish that. LGFL/Atomwide are so over the top!

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    I don't particularly wish to defend Atomwide's filtering policies, or the responses which people are currently getting from Atomwide support.

    However, I was in a session at the recent LGfL conference at which Martin Coulson (CEO of Atomwide) responded to some criticisms in this area. He made it clear that the current rate of switchovers from LGfL 1.0 to 2.0 has put constraints on the flexibility with which their support operation can respond to requests. As you can imagine, LGfL has always had problems with spammy outbound connections resulting in blacklisting of tranches of their own outbound IP address space. This is why there are messages-per-minute rate limits at their email relays. Apparently these will rise after a couple of weeks, once it is clear that a particular customer IP range isn't sending spam. Of course, the limits for a declared school mail relay should start off much higher. From the discussion, I would judge that these algorithms are being tuned at the moment and will probably need adjusting some more.

    One of the problems with the current load on Atomwide support is that subtle problems may not be escalated to people who can do something about them (Martin.) This is clearly unsatisfactory. Maybe a direct email to Martin Coulson (probably at martin.coulson@atomwide.com, or maybe martin@atomwide.com?) will do the trick for you.

    I would observe that email message rate-limiting is a perfectly sensible approach to trying to limit outgoing spam. It's quite common amongst ISPs these days. I would also question whether a single Exchange installation is actually a reliable way to send email.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post
    As you can imagine, LGfL has always had problems with spammy outbound connections resulting in blacklisting of tranches of their own outbound IP address space. This is why there are messages-per-minute rate limits at their email relays.
    I don't disagree with the idea of rate limiting - in fact I fully intend to implement such limits myself. If you re-read what I asked and what the answers were, you will see that they refuse to tell you want the limits and penalties are. This means that we could be in a condition where were send out an all student email via a distribution list or similar and get the entire school blocked as a spammer because we didnt realise we could only send 300 emails per hour. Of course we might not, but WE CAN'T FIND OUT!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post
    I would observe that email message rate-limiting is a perfectly sensible approach to trying to limit outgoing spam. It's quite common amongst ISPs these days.
    I agree - not a problem with that. The problem is as stated above they won't tell us if there is a limit that leads to sanctions - like the password incident above.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post
    I would also question whether a single Exchange installation is actually a reliable way to send email.
    I would rather trust a very simple system under my own control than a huge system catering for thousands upon thousands of users any day. The more users, the more complicated the system and the more likely it is to fail. And when it does fail its more complicated to fix. In addition to this, when its under my control *I* can fix it and have control over how long it takes - which when it is me being shouted at by the staff, I infinitely prefer!
    Last edited by esucmn; 11th May 2012 at 02:08 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by esucmn View Post
    I would rather trust a very simple system under my own control than a huge system catering for thousands upon thousands of users any day. The more users, the more complicated the system and the more likely it is to fail. And when it does fail its more complicated to fix. In addition to this, when its under my control *I* can fix it and have control over how long it takes - which when it is me being shouted at by the staff, I infinitely prefer!
    Which is exactly the reasons why I have been onto our suppliers this morning to sort out licencing to have our own in house exchange server. The whole LGfL staffmail package looks great on paper until you want to be able to do something sensible, like have a donotreply@ address for servers to send from, or a helpdesk@ address to integrate into your favourite helpdesk solution, that you can't have! Pfft!

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    Quote Originally Posted by esucmn View Post
    I agree - not a problem with that. The problem is as stated above they won't tell us if there is a limit that leads to sanctions - like the password incident above.
    I suggest that you contact Martin Coulson - he may be willing to tell you the email rate limits.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hit View Post
    The whole LGfL staffmail package looks great on paper until you want to be able to do something sensible ...
    I agree, Staffmail isn't very useful at all. It's exceptionally bad at coping with people who change roles and incapable of helping when people change their surname. It's antideluvian, which may well derive from the Microsoft technology it's based upon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post
    I suggest that you contact Martin Coulson - he may be willing to tell you the email rate limits.
    He was the one who refused.

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    Actually, I am not surprised. He is very opinionated.

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    Hi

    My first post here so bear with me!

    I have been in contact with our account manager at LogMeIn to discuss this issue at length. We are working for a way to overcome this but our responses from LGFL has been minimal.

    It should be noted that Serco Learning have not changed any of our remote access policies - and we were as caught blindsided by this as you were. I would advise all schools to discuss this with your ISP and we will continue to work on a technical solution with our Partner from LogMeIn.

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    I'm not sure about the rate limit your talking about here - I've found two ways to get outbound to work - firstly just post straight out to the main LGfL smtp outbound servers - no limit's on them - my email servers using this one along with my help desk system. Then I have a photocopier that wants to email the manufacturer when it's feeling sick which I use the email relay service which has a limit on it and is explained in the online manual

    If it reaches the limit then the system just disables it for a hour and then starts you up again after the hour is finished which is done automatically and that’s displayed in the tab on the support site - if you over run the limit then it's worth looking at why your sending loads of emails and either fixing the problem or asking for an increase on them limit which I got or posting into your own email server. If you tell them a to and a from address you get a massive limit and if you tell them nothing then a small limit.
    Last edited by Nodrog; 18th May 2012 at 07:07 AM.

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    Just touching on email still: Has anyone managed to get Atomwide to allow IMAP? On the example sheet of the MIPs request form it gives email as an example service, indicating that they will unblock the necessary ports if requested. However, one of my customers has just sent this to me in despair:

    teacher:
    What about the teachers that wish to access their gmail etc accounts using an email client like we did on lgfl1?
    Teachers with ipads? iPhones etc? Will that work through ECC? (what is ecc?)
    support desk:
    No I'm afraid there is no way to route that email through the ECC towers they will have to use the web browser on their devices.
    What an upgrade!

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    Quote Originally Posted by sramdeen View Post
    Just touching on email still: Has anyone managed to get Atomwide to allow IMAP? On the example sheet of the MIPs request form it gives email as an example service, indicating that they will unblock the necessary ports if requested.
    Nope, they completely refuse to allow any other mail through apart from StaffMail (lgflmail.org). The only way is through a web interface and then you have to allow "Web E-mail" on the WebScreen2 filtering policies (if it hasn't been blocked by your LA). We wanted to configure Outlook for LondonMail (lgflmail.net) for students and that can't get through either and the OWA interface for it sucks! Yet another reason we are moving to an in-house exchange server over the summer!

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    I got a range of ports opened up for Gmail – they have a 'group' for all the google ip address and I just asked for them to be allowed as outbound connections to the specified ranges that they use. I started by just asking for outbound to any old ip and that did not work.

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    LGfL have announced that they are working with LogMe in to find a solution. Apparently there was even a LMI rep at the LGFL Conference a few weeks ago.

    On the topic of GMAIL - have you asked for the ports and hosts listed in this article? Configuring other mail clients - Google Mail Help


    LGfL is very very short of publicly adressable IP addresses. They are desperately keen to avoid any blacklists, which are terribly easy to get onto if even one site has a spammy peice of malware. I would hope that by naming the specific server you wish to communicate with and that it requires authentication ought to allay their fears.

    It is interesting - until very recently I have found LGfL to be completely opaque. The first time they really opened up was via the nominated contact training, and now every time problems from the migration hit us, the more open they become. I really hope that they will start behaving like a comercial organisation when it comes to customer relations. They only have a limited pool of customers - and now that many of them are no longer locked in, they absolutely have to start communicating better with the technical staff in schools.

    They also need to realise that they have to treat the consumers of the service as the customers. Atomwide's customer is not thee or me, but LGfL. In many cases LGfL's customer is not even the school but the LA. The consumers of the service are left in the dark without a voice.

    Maintenance windows, changes, filter rules, rate limiters, absolute blocks, changes all need to be publicised. Their network reaches deep into schools and unexpected changes can cause chaos.

    They esposed an openess will to listend to the consumers of the service at the Conference this year. It would be really good to see them put their money where their mouth is.

    P.

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    talksr (25th May 2012)

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    hit
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    Have just received this little gem from CentraStage....
    I am contacting you following your recent account registration for the CentraStage platform. I wanted to share with you the additional information about Centrastage and the capabilities of the software you are entitled to Free as part of the LGFL.
    *
    If you have any support queries please raise them with our support team directly by simply visiting the Centrastage Community
    *
    What do I get for Free? - The on demand version that you receive free of charge as part of the LGFL, allows you to have the below features:
    *
    -********* Auditing – Agent comes online every 7 days and run an audit (attended remote session)
    -********* Remote Support – end user initiated remote takeover
    -********* Reporting
    *
    The full product is upgradeable at a cost and will provide you with an ‘unrestricted’, always on agent capability.
    *
    -********* Unattended remote control
    -********* Software Deployment
    -********* Monitoring
    -********* Patch Management
    *
    If you would like further details around the product commercials or a run through of what the full product can provide, please contact me directly and I will be happy provide a breakdown for you.
    *
    Keen to hear your thoughts and look forward to your feedback.
    So, the short of it is they block logmein and supply CentraStage as a replacement which won't allow me to connect ad-hoc, it has to be initiated by a user. How the hell is that meant to work on a server, do I ring a user at the site, ask them to RDP into the server and click the "HELP ME" button, just so I can do my job? Shafted once again by LGfL!

  17. Thanks to hit from:

    talksr (25th May 2012)

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