+ Post New Thread
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 16 to 27 of 27
Internet Related/Filtering/Firewall Thread, UK Adult Filter in Technical; Originally Posted by localzuk My preferred outcome of this - get parents to actually parent their children. They find something ...
  1. #16

    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    London
    Posts
    3,144
    Thank Post
    113
    Thanked 518 Times in 447 Posts
    Blog Entries
    2
    Rep Power
    121
    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    My preferred outcome of this - get parents to actually parent their children. They find something online? They should've been taught from the beginning to tell their parents, and as such the parents can explain and deal with it, rather than hiding behind technology.
    I do agree with this and it works up to the point where children will tell their parents about things they're not sure about etc (when my friend's young daughters first started using Google they got some strange results searching for "women dressing up" which lead to "Daddy, why have these women got no clothes on" and a proper discussion). Once you get a bit older than that and you want to look at porn no amount of "tell me if you find something disturbing" is going to help.

    As you say, however, filtering is much, much more difficult to get right and I think there's little chance of it working. The idea of a .xxx TLD has been floated again and it would be easy to only allow access to that from people who've asked for it but how do you set someone setting up their own personal web site and putting porn on there?

  2. #17
    eejit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Ireland
    Posts
    605
    Thank Post
    51
    Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts
    Rep Power
    21
    Quote Originally Posted by AyatollahPies View Post
    I agree with pete. How long until they start blocking access to sites like wikileaks, using the excuse that they harbour dangerous content?

    Make the most of the internet folks. I doubt it will be anything like we know it, in 10 years time.
    Excellent post. And from experience that is exactly what will happen. "Anti-terror" laws are rarely used for anti-terror.

  3. #18
    CAM
    CAM is offline

    CAM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Burgh Heath, Surrey
    Posts
    3,703
    Thank Post
    755
    Thanked 296 Times in 233 Posts
    Blog Entries
    60
    Rep Power
    243
    It's interesting that they say porn is causing mental issues in kids. But the other say I watched primary school kids playing on the field from my office. One picked up a stick and started pretending it was a gun.

    Can't blame porn for that!

  4. #19

    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Nottingham
    Posts
    569
    Thank Post
    38
    Thanked 114 Times in 104 Posts
    Rep Power
    45
    It's once again non technical people deciding what's technically possible. The scale of a system to handle this sort of thing would be immense (not to mention the administration/cost overhead). In my opinion the better option is education of parents in 2 respects - firstly so they can educate their kids about safe use of the internet and secondly education about tools they can use to help protect their kids (K9 for example, parental controls on games devices). The other thing I'd quite like to see developed is a very cut down version of smoothwall or similar - using the content filtering components only (ie no caching, no reporting, possibly short term logging) embedded onto a wireless router type device - this would (I think) be a very quick hit with security conscious parents - those of us with the know how can create a separate box for this, but having something a non-techy could fairly easily use would be a nice addition to the current market place.
    Last edited by Willott; 4th January 2011 at 12:53 PM. Reason: typos

  5. #20
    gshaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Essex
    Posts
    2,604
    Thank Post
    154
    Thanked 205 Times in 190 Posts
    Rep Power
    64
    Quote Originally Posted by Willott View Post
    It's once again non technical people deciding what's technically possible. The scale of a system to handle this sort of thing would be immense (not to mention the administration/cost overhead). In my opinion the better option is education of parents in 2 respects - firstly so they can educate their kids about safe use of the internet and secondly education about tools they can use to help protect their kids (K9 for example, parental controls on games devices). The other thing I'd quite like to see developed is a very cut down version of smoothwall or similar - using the content filtering components only (ie no caching, no reporting, possibly short term logging) embedded onto a wireless router type device - this would (I think) be a very quick hit with security conscious parents - those of us with the know how can create a separate box for this, but having something a non-techy could fairly easily use would be a nice addition to the current market place.
    Methinks you should get that idea registered as a patent if it's possible, could have a nice little earner there!

  6. #21

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Surburbia
    Posts
    2,178
    Thank Post
    74
    Thanked 307 Times in 243 Posts
    Rep Power
    114
    Prior art: I'm fuzzy, but it's something like 10 years since some vendors made content filtering domestic routers.

  7. #22


    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    In the server room, with the lead pipe.
    Posts
    4,534
    Thank Post
    271
    Thanked 752 Times in 590 Posts
    Rep Power
    218
    Quote Originally Posted by gshaw View Post
    Methinks you should get that idea registered as a patent if it's possible, could have a nice little earner there!
    The problem is fitting that into a SBC that's both powerful enough to handle the load without slowing down browsing (filtering, random bittorrents, everything else) and cheap enough to sell them at a viable (from point of view of your average PC World shopper) price point. Your average little blue router can sort-of do it using custom firmware, but it's not pretty, fast and it's reasonably easy to make it fall over under load.

    That's before you get into the whole "So what's stopping the kid getting the password and altering the config?" issue. 90% of non-technical people will just set and forget and it's only if young Jimmy is indiscreet enough to get caught that they'll know.

  8. #23

    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Nottingham
    Posts
    569
    Thank Post
    38
    Thanked 114 Times in 104 Posts
    Rep Power
    45
    It seems that some people have got DD-WRT and Dansguardian running successfully... however it probably doesn't have a particularly useful interface (and the firmaware may not be as stable as firmware specifically written for the device it's used on), and the interface of Smoothwall is relatively simple to use to control blocking (though some more simplification would probably help in this application).

    Packetprotector seems to be some way towards it but requires a USB drive (it may work without if you stop clamav, but it only runs on a limited number of routers).

    PiquABoo - I wonder how advanced the filtering was - my guess would be URL filtering (which still appears on some domestic routers - you can block certain URLs... blocked facebook on a Friend's network when their kids should have been doing work but were facebooking...), and not dynamic content type.

    Shame my current router isn't up to the task otherwise I'd try building packetprotector for that. If I can spare some cash to buy another router soon then I may buy one and see if I can get it working how I'd like. Even so... a joining forces of Smoothwall and one of the router manufacturers would probably provide a more stable and robust solution for mass sale!

  9. #24

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Surburbia
    Posts
    2,178
    Thank Post
    74
    Thanked 307 Times in 243 Posts
    Rep Power
    114
    I wonder how advanced the filtering was
    Just sanity-check-googled and found a 2002 NetGear - some basic blocking stuff plus if you paid a subscription it apparently talked to some SurfControl URL categorisation service. Pretty much the same fundamental deal as K9, the Fortigate client etc.

    Overheads of putting category checking into a domestic router are not obviously that different to the DNS service you normally get on them. Whether you'd get a categorisation service to let some vendor hook up a h/w device for free is another matter. Presumably not, otherwise this would be a common feature by now surely?

  10. #25

    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Nottingham
    Posts
    569
    Thank Post
    38
    Thanked 114 Times in 104 Posts
    Rep Power
    45
    Quote Originally Posted by pete View Post
    The problem is fitting that into a SBC that's both powerful enough to handle the load without slowing down browsing (filtering, random bittorrents, everything else) and cheap enough to sell them at a viable (from point of view of your average PC World shopper) price point. Your average little blue router can sort-of do it using custom firmware, but it's not pretty, fast and it's reasonably easy to make it fall over under load.
    It seems that the routers are improving in their performance capabilities, with increase in RAM and CPU speeds (older routers seem to be in the 125MHz range, newer ones around 400MHz, some even @680MHz), it may be that there may be another hardware solution (a nettop possibly), the thing to remember is it would just be 5-6 people normally accessing (Dansguardian specs 300Mhz for 50 users), and cost wise, they're selling the 400MHz routers at 40... if something could be made for 100 which would provide net access and restrict access to unsavoury content (possibly with a small subscription fee for blocklist updates) then I think it would be a winner.

    I don't have enough technical knowledge to be able to know for definite, but the idea was there for people to investigate!

    Quote Originally Posted by pete View Post
    That's before you get into the whole "So what's stopping the kid getting the password and altering the config?" issue. 90% of non-technical people will just set and forget and it's only if young Jimmy is indiscreet enough to get caught that they'll know.
    Same argument goes for young Jimmy borrowing the booze cupboard key, taking a copy then getting drunk when mum and dad go out... the idea is not to make it automatically impossible to get on to sites, but to provide a tool to make it damn difficult. There has to be some level of person involvement, this would just provide a technical tool to help in the fight.

  11. #26

    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    London
    Posts
    3,144
    Thank Post
    113
    Thanked 518 Times in 447 Posts
    Blog Entries
    2
    Rep Power
    121
    Solutions like filtering in the home are fine for sensible parents who understand the need for such a device. For Windows users I believe that Windows Live Family Safety 2011 is pretty good (and it's free).

    Sadly, there are too many parents who either don't know or don't care about web safety and this is why there's a proposal to move the filtering further up-stream.

    The technological problem then is that instead of needing a low spec device to handle the filtering for half a dozen users, you need mega-devices which can cope with thousands of users. You can't really do it by DNS which would be quick and low impact (because www.myspecialsite.com/porn is bad but www.myspecialsite.com/fluffybunnies is good) so you have to have URL based or content based filtering which needs more CPU.

  12. #27

    john's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    London
    Posts
    10,439
    Thank Post
    1,468
    Thanked 1,035 Times in 908 Posts
    Rep Power
    299
    The Netgear Router filtering stuff was ok, I had a friend using it and it sort of worked, his son soon learnt how to get around it he said, but it did help cut down the dodgy accidental google searches so he said.

SHARE:
+ Post New Thread
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Similar Threads

  1. Bloxx - media filter + web filter
    By mrbios in forum Internet Related/Filtering/Firewall
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 29th September 2010, 08:49 AM
  2. Two Posts Peterborough College of Adult Education
    By Andie in forum Educational IT Jobs
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 20th October 2009, 08:16 AM
  3. Adult/Child Email address replication
    By docboggle in forum East Midlands Broadband Consortium (EMBC)
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 13th July 2009, 04:43 PM
  4. Adult Learning (out of hours school access)
    By ICTNUT in forum How do you do....it?
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 13th April 2007, 05:23 PM

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •