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Internet Related/Filtering/Firewall Thread, Ofsted require primary schools to have individual computer accounts and tracking????? in Technical; I have requested the relevant Ofsted info from our e safety team and will post it up if the send ...
  1. #16

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    I have requested the relevant Ofsted info from our e safety team and will post it up if the send it.

  2. 2 Thanks to edutech4schools:

    TechSupp (5th April 2014), witch (5th April 2014)

  3. #17

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    When it says monitoring, does this mean having a policy in place to look at the internet traffic logs once a week like we do? or is this saying we should be using screen shot software?

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    @Matt4k, actually I have found that Primary Schools don't supervise what the students go on as much as secondary schools do! I am always walking around lessons and seeing kids on paint messing about or searching 'funny' in Google Images and the teacher is at the front eating a cake. When I worked in the secondary school there was a lot more monitoring going on it all seems to relaxed here for my liking, you'd also be surprised what year 3+ kids search for and think they'll get away with it I had a 6 year old search the term "boobs" the other day. They don't understand consequences and can't be left to get away with it otherwise when they get to your secondary school they'd get in a lot of trouble as you guys monitor them more closely than I ever could with the stuff I have here.
    Though this may all be due to where my school is located, not the nicest area and the things I hear parents say to their kids walking them in on a morning makes me cringe to say the least!...

  5. #19

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    I'd hope this is isn't a common thing! Certainly if more and more schools are moving anyway from LA\RBC broadband with enforced filtering. Still not sure what a screenshot is going to do! I think my first reaction to the school telling me that my son has spent the day entering "boobs" into Google wouldn't be prove it, it would be why is my son going on the internet unsupervised which would be followed up (after much complaining) by why haven't they enforced the Google strict search so the images don't appear. Only after I calmed down would I be having the conversion with him about how it's wrong to do it - as funny as he finds it. This would probability be followed by me sifting through the school transfer guidance that the missus has sent me earlier in the day.

    I trust my son's school that if something did happen, they would have the correct processes in place to deal with it, ie getting it promptly blocked and not waiting until the end of the week when it pops up in the logs\when they go through the screenshots, or even not finding it at all!! - I know when I worked in a school we had an issue where someone misspelt tennis (missed out a n) which returned some unwanted results. So I accept even with supervised, filtered access something could happen. So is buying software that takes screenshots to prove that it happens so parents believe them? I just can't see the benefit really. I mean I'd rather they hired a technician to physically monitor the computers then the logs\screenshots - least they could fix them when they break

  6. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt40k View Post
    I'd hope this is isn't a common thing! Certainly if more and more schools are moving anyway from LA\RBC broadband with enforced filtering. Still not sure what a screenshot is going to do! I think my first reaction to the school telling me that my son has spent the day entering "boobs" into Google wouldn't be prove it, it would be why is my son going on the internet unsupervised which would be followed up (after much complaining) by why haven't they enforced the Google strict search so the images don't appear. Only after I calmed down would I be having the conversion with him about how it's wrong to do it - as funny as he finds it. This would probability be followed by me sifting through the school transfer guidance that the missus has sent me earlier in the day.

    I trust my son's school that if something did happen, they would have the correct processes in place to deal with it, ie getting it promptly blocked and not waiting until the end of the week when it pops up in the logs\when they go through the screenshots, or even not finding it at all!! - I know when I worked in a school we had an issue where someone misspelt tennis (missed out a n) which returned some unwanted results. So I accept even with supervised, filtered access something could happen. So is buying software that takes screenshots to prove that it happens so parents believe them? I just can't see the benefit really. I mean I'd rather they hired a technician to physically monitor the computers then the logs\screenshots - least they could fix them when they break
    We have around 3 children each week that try to access Adult Content normally years 6's, the number is now dropping since I have put in Smoothwall and some of them are aware they are being monitored. The children are more scared accessing things like that at home then they are at school and I'm sick and tired of the staff not supervising the children properly, I had one member of staff give me a laptop that was smashed into little pieces because the child got angry and through it on the floor... where's the common sense, the teacher should have took the laptop off him he was showing signs of anger! I don't know I do what I can but I do find it appropriate to monitor the children and what they go on, they're not thick and they know what they are doing, if they have no repercussions after their actions they will never learn.

    Also from a safeguarding point of view it helps, we found a certain student looking at inappropriate things and then found it was to do with abuse from a step farther... there's a lot of benefits in monitoring young children especially on computers and I think every primary school should do it, we have Individual accounts and Smoothwall but that is it nothing like Impero etc... this is just because we can't afford it and deem it unnecessary.

    It is true that students make spelling errors and more but that is why you talk to the child first to find out the full story and then make your decision on whether or not they deserve punishment or for example if they are repeatedly offending then you know they are lieing.

    Just to add I have been to two primary schools recently none of which are using LEA broadband and also have no filtering or ways to monitor the children it's just an open home broadband equivalent internet connection :| Shocking I know.

  7. #21

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    For me, your doing be the best you can as a technician. You've got a smoothwall box, your monitoring it. The schools got something in place to deal with it - as clearly something happened and they've reacted (important to note the technician job isn't to react to the information, just to help them identify it and to pass it on to the correct people). Has the rest of the school has done enough, well I don't know. I guess that's up to OfSted and co. Clearly you know some schools that we would both say are failing their duty of care, I can't see how unfiltered internet connections in schools is acceptable. I'd hope OfSted would pick up on this.

  8. #22
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    This is the current briefing paper that the Ofsted inspectors work from when judging e-safety:

    Ofsted | Briefings and information for use during inspections of maintained schools and academies

    I suspect these phrases are the ones currently inspiring fear and ill-judged investment.

    Good and Outstanding practice:

    Recognised Internet Service Provider (ISP) or Regional Broadband Consortium (RBC) together with age-related filtering that is actively monitored.
    Indicator of inadequate practice:

    Security of passwords is ineffective, for example passwords are shared or common with all but the youngest children.
    There is no internet filtering or monitoring.
    To be honest, the average inspector will not understand nor care about the exact technology or process being used. What they care about is that whatever the school is doing, it is doing consistently and that it can show this through evidence of policy review, policy consultation with stakeholders, effective and regular training of staff, students know how/where/who to report problems to and a good e-safety curriculum. If there has been a problem, was it dealt with effectively.

    Companies will jump on phrases that could be construed to favour their product and then inspire fear in the hearts of LA's, Head's and schools with a big fake Ofsted stick.

    By the way, the NSPCC online eSafety training, delivered in parnership with CEOP is an excellent place to start if few staff have been trained in your organisation....................and I don't even work for them ;-)

  9. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by skunk View Post
    By the way, the NSPCC online eSafety training, delivered in parnership with CEOP is an excellent place to start if few staff have been trained in your organisation....................and I don't even work for them ;-)
    I couldn't agree more. Better still, it's cheap... only £20, so a school can afford to put lots of people on it!

    Keeping children safe online | An online learning course for anyone working with children | NSPCC

  10. #24
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    Be glad you don't work in special!

    It's taken me years to train myself out of one user, one logon.

    Even up to Yr 9 the kids cannot use individual logons, and we have far more TAs than teachers. I tried insisting on everyone use their own logon, and you ended up with multiple logon's/logoff's during a lesson. Had to stick to generic staff class logons.

    It hurts, but it's the only way that works.

  11. #25

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    My LA has got back to me with the following info.

    Ofsted Section 5 guidance to inspectors says that individual logins should be provided for “all but the very youngest children.
    Is this true?

    As for the monitoring software they mention that it is also to monitor adults as a situation occurred where a member of staff was transferring indecent images using a schools network and the software in the original post would have flagged this.

  12. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by elsiegee40 View Post
    I couldn't agree more. Better still, it's cheap... only £20, so a school can afford to put lots of people on it!

    Keeping children safe online | An online learning course for anyone working with children | NSPCC
    Is this an official recognise qualification as such. At the moment our school is looking deep into esafety and I really think if I could take this course it would benefit the school as I'd know a bit more about the whole subject?

  13. #27

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    Obviously vested interest etc but takling general here not just about one product or company...

    The thing about safe guarding is that not just about stopping young people looking at porn on the internet but about bigger issue of safe guarding so it includes things like helping students with eating disorders looking at pro-ana websites , abuse, self harm.

    Also again not about blocking (in survey 75.37% of students had accessed restricted sites even through school blocked it) but monitoring and education of students. The benefit of systems such as Impero (Other systems may be available) is that help pick up on non-website based activity such as bullying via writing things in powerpoint as well as online activity.

    Russ

  14. #28

    elsiegee40's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by abillybob View Post
    Is this an official recognise qualification as such. At the moment our school is looking deep into esafety and I really think if I could take this course it would benefit the school as I'd know a bit more about the whole subject?
    @abillybob it is endorsed by CEOP

    It is definitely recommended as a first step to understanding eSafety issues

  15. #29

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    @russdev is Impero used alot in primaries? I see it as many a secondary school product.

    Also interested in the monitoring of staff - that's a interesting can of worms to open up. Not sure how the teacher unions would react if they found out they don't trust them. Surely you'd have to have reasonable
    suspicion first?

  16. #30

    elsiegee40's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matt40k View Post
    @russdev is Impero used alot in primaries? I see it as many a secondary school product.

    Also interested in the monitoring of staff - that's a interesting can of worms to open up. Not sure how the teacher unions would react if they found out they don't trust them. Surely you'd have to have reasonable
    suspicion first?
    Our AUP for staff states that users of the school IT network must be aware that all their activity is monitored and logged. It's the same at my governor school... and the same at Mr gee40's financial services employer.... It is expected these days. No union objection anywhere.

    If you don't want what your are doing to be tracked by your rmployer then use your smart phone.

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