I'm starting to lose track of what it is your against but suspecting it everything about stepping outside/above a day jobI think it is sad that you do not rate what you do and believe you are worth more.
I started working in primary IT, mending printers/computers etc. This is my second career and I've got a little bit of go about me. I helped the teachers use IT, my cluster got into doing cluster wide IT projects (stop animation, d&T control etc for a few years) and I was interested and helped.
This developed into helping out in what i'd call IT intensive lessons (especially Y6 Control stuff) and eventually one of heads who had the greatest faith in my ability asked me to do PPA cover in Y5 and Y6 for 1 hour each a week.
As a mature (well lets say old anyway) parent/person with children aged about 11/12 at the time I didn't have too much problems in dealing with classes - went on a few behaviour management sessions (as seemingly not allowed to make children run around the field for 2 hours if they speak out of turn nowadays ) - the children seemed to like it (no so much the excel stuff!) as I was the nice man who comes in and does fun IT.
Like I say, I'm now at the point where I'd say my pay reflects my activites and everyone I know seems happy with it.
(Just got landed at short notice with a Y5 class this morning and we had a great time using Scratch to animate Humpty Dumpty - the netbook screen replacements can go ahead in the hols !)
Now, if someone didn't want to do this and was being forced then thats bad (or bad for Bossman losing effort and seeing someone else losing out paywise)
If I was a teaching union rep defending my members livelyhood, then I'd expect (not unreasonably) that they'd take a dim view of it.
I did try to go back on and remove my sad comment this morning but it was too late as it was an emoitional response to your views - so sorry for that
But I'd maintain - its really all about the kids and they (and all of my heads/teachers) are benefited by my dual role - as I think quite a few "extrovert" type geeks would be if given the chance
Last edited by SimpleSi; 5th July 2012 at 02:27 PM.
I do hope this is the full half-hour arguement and not the 30 second one
Ive started Computer Club after school every thursday . We started stripping a pc down and rebuilding it taking photos of various hardware etc .We then rebuilt the pc installed windows and installed Audacity and now the kids are giving a vocal description of what they learned with a powerpoint to boot.
Next we are going to video production its the school centenary so hoping to do a 1900's news video etc and show in school Assembly.
Thats the fun side .Hoping to do some scratch stuff and lots lots more come September
SimpleSi (5th July 2012)
I don't do much with the students but I do lots of training, I think of myself as a soldier fighting the wave of stupidity steadily taking over the planet. Training often has much better long term outcomes, teach a man to fish and all that. When someone breaks something they generally get a forced/passive training session. Eventually they usually either pay attention or learn with osmosis. Nothing makes a user happier than their problems evaporating in front of them, if that is because they fix it themselves automatically then all the better as it is instant. Socrates - said something along the lines of 'the only true wisdom lies in knowing that you know nothing' the sooner people get and accept that every day is about learning the better.
I totally agree with what you have stated in you recent post and if you are happy to do this as a respected member of the staff and all is above board then I don't think anyone would disagree with you, the things that get most people's backs up are when they are asked to do things at a time when they are most vunerable and that is usually when they are tired from working 60 - 70 hour weeks trying to keep systems running 24/7/365 with very little preventative maintenance windows to work in and SLT putting more and more on top of an already overloaded team without any due recognision of that teams effort and remuneraton.
We all go to work for money to pay for our lifestyles and from what I read on here some people are below the poverty line and this is not fair when they work hard and have a good skillset with which schools sometimes exploit for their own benefit and to the benefit of just a few, performance pay for Teachers and SLT members is far more than for support staff believe me we all agree on this I feel.
Just to be treat as other professional people within the school would be a step in the right direction but so often you hear that support staff are part of a two tier system within education and until we are recognised as having a unique skillset and that we are professionals in our own right then this kind of thing is going to carry on.
A fair day's pay for a fair day's work has always been my working ethos and I would do anything for anyone within reason to help the teaching and learning within our school because let's face it, we all feel very passionate about our school and where it stands within the community don't we?
I think I have put my side across without stating that its being a jobsworth which couldn't be further from the truth as many people on here will tell you.
Thanks for listening or not as the case may be
Last edited by bossman; 5th July 2012 at 03:03 PM.
BTW, what happens to your own job when you are teaching? However much 'go' you have, you can hardly be in two places at once so unless you are giving them extra time as well as cheap expertise, surely you are not carrying out your tech roles in the hours you are paid to do so?
Roberto (6th July 2012)
Last edited by pcstru; 5th July 2012 at 10:28 PM.
SimpleSi (6th July 2012)
This is an interesting thread and strange to see the range of responses. I see no issue with anyone being asked to instruct if they have the knowledge, skills, experience and ability to instruct and/or teach. That they should be paid accordingly is an important thing and that they should also make sure that other work they are employed to do is not affected.
Lunchtime clubs to spark interest and to provide extra-curricular activities is a slightly different matter. If an individual is happy to do this and does a good job then go for it ... giving up your own time to take on something like that is fantastic. Whether it is helping in music clubs, setting up beehives, building a robot ... you have my respect and admiration ... just be careful not to burn yourself out and don't get walked over by being too nice.
Not too good at listening to others then, are you?simplesi said, so why shouldnt they pay you as well?
15 All?and every time I've reached the roof of a scale I've been moved on and I'm now paid at the same rate as an HLTA
You know - It gets worse - I take the laptops home and mend them at weekends/eveningssurely you are not carrying out your tech roles in the hours you are paid to do so?
I think we've proved we are -j on this issue and there's no common ground apart from us being 2 grumpy old people
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