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How do you do....it? Thread, How many ICT technicians here teach and/or have after school clubs? in Technical; I feel that there are 2 sides to this, 1. is that the school requires teaching of IT and not ...
  1. #16

    bossman's Avatar
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    I feel that there are 2 sides to this,
    1. is that the school requires teaching of IT and not ICT and the difference is that,
    2. a teacher can and will teach ICT as it is quite a lot easier than teaching pure IT which involves coding and networking etc which most teachers cannot seem to grasp and that is why they turn to the people who not only manage the systems on the cheap but will also teach the students on the cheap.

    It would only happen in the education sector as ever the SLT do not understand the mechanics required and how the process works, we run a homework which really is a cheap form of childcare so that the teachers can have their lunch in peace not that it matters whether the technical staff get theirs.

    Its really a one way system and those of us who embrace the teaching of students especially those who have it timetabled should change their profession to that of teacher and let someone else have the job of technical staff.

    I really don't understand why the SLT at most schools still don't understand the difference between technical help and actually doing other professionals job's for them.

    If this sounds a little bitter then please understand that we as technical staff should only do what is deemed technical and not teaching young students or doing teachers work for them, like creating powerpoints and the like because they are too lazy to learn for themselves. They always come with the same old story that they don't have enough time or they don't know how to do it, b*lls**t it's because they are lazy elitist's who think it's their right to lumber technical staff with their work.

    I also realise that their are decent teachers who do work hard and learn about using applications for themselves but I find as the years have gone on that these type of teachers are getting less and less prevolent.

    Anyway if I have upset anyone by these remarks.......................................toug h!!! get over yourself as I am totally right in what I say and the more that people let schools get away with the more our profession is going to be diluted and made trivial by the very people who request your help every day of the week.

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  3. #17

    SimpleSi's Avatar
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    I mainly teach Y5/Y6 classes (timetabled every thurs am in one school) and currently have a timetabled Y4 class last lesson on a Friday.

    But some years I've had more timetabled ones(if my sessions match up with PPA cover for instance)

    I introduce topics/software such as Audacity and I'm a Scratch and Stop-Animation evangelist

    I run an after school for a term in 5 out of my 6 schools doing Scratch/fun animations and I'm planning on moving onto Ardunio initially via the S4A Scratch variation and then maybe onto RaspberyPi stuff (but might leave the PI stuff for mini-RaspberryJam events for kids/parents in the early evenings at my nearest school).

    I consider doing this sort of stuff one of the perks of working in primaries and far better than having a real job

    Si

  4. #18

    SimpleSi's Avatar
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    Its really a one way system and those of us who embrace the teaching of students especially those who have it timetabled should change their profession to that of teacher and let someone else have the job of technical staff.
    At primary level, I couldn't disagree more as there is just no chance of schools employing IT teaching specialists (unless peripatetic ones become commonly available for hire) but I can understand where your coming from at Secondary schools
    Si

  5. #19

    SimpleSi's Avatar
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    . Taking an IT club in your own time is one thing, but officially teaching when you are neither a trained teacher NOR paid to do it, is quite another
    That's one of the saddest posts I've ever seen on here

    AFAIC I'm employed to help the schools I work in - if I've got certain skills - then I'm not going to say "thats not in my job description" - I'm going to do my best to help.

    To be perfectly honest - I was originally taken on the the bottom of the old AP&T Scale 2 and every time I've reached the roof of a scale I've been moved on and I'm now paid at the same rate as an HLTA but I still used to do this stuff when I wasn't paid it.

    Some people come to work to do their job and go home - fair enough for them - but its not for me

    Si

    PS I've had Ofsted inspectors inspecting me teach on 2 occasions and AFAIK they were quite happy with what I was doing - they were only interested in how the teaching was affecting the pupils and not who was doing it
    Last edited by SimpleSi; 4th July 2012 at 11:34 PM.

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  7. #20

    CESIL's Avatar
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    Surely ICT covers more than "pure IT"...adding as it adds the Communication part...

    I think we need a clearer division between ICT and Computer Science which is where I believe you move into the "proper" computer skills...

    ...and as much as I would like to think that we will inspire a new mass generation of innovators by introducing the Raspberry PI et al I fear that all that will happen is that the same small minority of geeky kids will be inspired just as I was back in the 70s.

    Just because all (well most) kids are happy to accept new technology and not being scared of it therefore appear to be "brilliant" with it does not mean that they are crying out for the opportunity to learn to program. I suspect that the majority of kids will decide, once they discover that the fabled PI will not do anything without programming, lose interest rapidly, much the same as most of my friends back in the day did.

    We need to remember (and celebrate) that those of us that frequent Edugeek are part of a minority of society that really "get" computers and enjoy "playing" with them.

    This is just my two penn'orth, I would really love to believe that there are loads of kids out there desperate to become geeks but I fear it just isn't so...not at least in my experience as a parent and as a school technician.

    Oh and I also do help out with teaching ICT but insist the teacher is present to (in theory) learn to be able to take their own lessons... :P
    Last edited by CESIL; 4th July 2012 at 11:42 PM.

  8. #21

    SimpleSi's Avatar
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    I would really love to believe that there are loads of kids out there desperate to become geeks but I fear it just isn't so...not at least in my experience as a parent and as a school technician.
    Not many go onto being artists or authors or Olympic gymnasts but we should give them all the opportunity - and if we don't do it - who will
    Si

  9. #22

    bossman's Avatar
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    @SimpleSi: @CESIL:

    Please don't take my post the wrong way, I am in no way condemming what you do for the school what I am condemming is the way in which the schools use and abuse their position by utilising your skills and re-embursing via a lower wage scale instead of regarding what you and other technical people do in a proper teaching manner and have the decency to pay you the going rate for teaching as if they were paying a fully qualified teacher.

    I have a technician who at this moment has not turned his hand to any technical IT work in over 6 weeks due to the fact that part of his role is PR using his skills with Adobe Indesign to promote our school, he does the application work and an ex teacher does the wording on a contract basis being paid by the hour. What has clearly been defined is the huge difference in pay scale for this, the technician gets his rate of pay according to his payscale and the ex teacher gets his according to the going rate which is approx 4 times my technicians rate and he does all the application work photo taking etc etc even down to utilising the printing off on our reprographics machine.

    This in turn creates a vacuum which my other technician has to fill with my help also on jobs that he has to move up. This means that I sometimes cannot fulfil my job role which impacts wholeschool on both students and staff which they sharp let me know about.

    Schools will and do put on their technical staff as they see fit and don't often see the conscequences of what they implement as they usually have no idea about what it takes to keep all the services running sweetly 24/7/365, basically they have a knee jerk reaction to anything that they see as their priorities without thoughts of what impact it may have on the wholeschool.

    Educators do not necessarily make the best managers and leaders in schools and that is why proper business managers of a very high calibre are often sought after by large academies rather than headteachers as they understand leadership and management far better.

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  11. #23

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    Personally, I'd not be happy 'teaching'. I'd be happy instructing. ie. a teacher has a lesson they want to teach, but they don't have the individual skills to get everything they want out of it, so they ask me to come along and show the class how to do things (I've done this a few times).

    It isn't me who is planning the lesson, or figuring out outcomes etc... I'm just saying 'click here, type there'.

    If I was asked to actually teach a lesson, I'd be saying no. Not because I have some aversion to it, but because I am not qualified, experienced or suited to teaching. That means that I would not be a good teacher and the kids would not get educated properly - so its bad for all involved!

    It is entirely unreasonable for a school to ask an unqualified support staff member to teach a lesson on a timetable.

  12. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by SimpleSi View Post
    That's one of the saddest posts I've ever seen on here
    Why? I am always prepared to help to the utmost of my ability as a technician, and I am in no way the sort of tech who goes around saying "that's not my job" and I am not happy with that sort of comment.
    BUT schools pay teachers a great deal more than you get and I think it is unfair of them to get cheap teaching, and I also think that you are doing yourself a disservice as well. Do you not believe that you are at least, worth an instructor's salary? You may be full of integrity and work far harder than the rest of us () but the school is taking advantage of your good nature.

    Quote Originally Posted by bossman View Post
    Please don't take my post the wrong way, I am in no way condemning what you do for the school what I am condemning is the way in which the schools use and abuse their position by utilising your skills and reimbursing via a lower wage scale instead of regarding what you and other technical people do in a proper teaching manner and have the decency to pay you the going rate for teaching as if they were paying a fully qualified teacher..
    What he said

    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    If I was asked to actually teach a lesson, I'd be saying no. Not because I have some aversion to it, but because I am not qualified, experienced or suited to teaching. That means that I would not be a good teacher and the kids would not get educated properly - so its bad for all involved!

    It is entirely unreasonable for a school to ask an unqualified support staff member to teach a lesson on a timetable.
    Not qualified, experienced, suited to or PAID to be a teacher.

    We all go over and above our job description - that's the nature of the job and the nature of most of us techs. BUT there is a difference between going the extra mile and being exploited.
    I agree, there is a shortage of IT specialists in primary schools, so if schools can get someone as experienced and able as @SimpleSi they can surely afford the cost of paying an instructor's rate for a couple of hours. After all, it still isn't anywhere near a teacher's salary
    Last edited by witch; 5th July 2012 at 08:37 AM.

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  14. #25

    CESIL's Avatar
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    It is entirely unreasonable for a school to ask an unqualified support staff member to teach a lesson on a timetable.
    Absolutely correct...the only "timetabled" task I have taken on was the after school computer club and I only did that because we were offered some funds to pay for it. Once the money ran out I stopped doing it...which was a great shame as I enjoyed it and so did the pupils...some still ask me a year later when I am going to start the club again! The rest of the time I am only with the class to lead the activity and in theory the teacher learns enough to manage on their own next time (dream on). There are a couple of teachers here (the most senior incidentally) who do push it a bit by inviting me to help them but then slipping away to do something "urgent" for a "few" minutes, returning just in time for the end of the lesson...

    @SimpleSi Not many go onto being artists or authors or Olympic gymnasts but we should give them all the opportunity - and if we don't do it - who will
    Si
    Again I agree totally, my beef is the way these initiatives brought in...they will encourage us to start getting pupils at primaries like ours interested (maybe even excited) about learning "real" computer skills...but if this is not continued when they move up to senior school then the time and effort expended down here at our level is wasted...

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    Quote Originally Posted by witch View Post
    ..BUT schools pay teachers a great deal more than you get and I think it is unfair of them to get cheap teaching, and I also think that you are doing yourself a disservice as well. Do you not believe that you are at least, worth an instructor's salary? You may be full of integrity and work far harder than the rest of us () but the school is taking advantage of your good nature.
    ..

    I agree, there is a shortage of IT specialists in primary schools, so if schools can get someone as experienced and able as @SimpleSi they can surely afford the cost of paying an instructor's rate for a couple of hours. After all, it still isn't anywhere near a teacher's salary
    Good IT Staff should earn as much (or more) than Teaching staff..

    I used to teach GNVQ IT (in the UK) then A Level Computer Science (Overseas) -whilst working as IT Manager in those schools. My stint overseas was a teaching hours contract where I enjoyed the long holidays... (The schools paid for me to get a teaching qualification) I have always been paid fairly and on-par, or better than teaching staff.

    I no longer teach, but wouldn't mind doing so if there was a need.

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    Quote Originally Posted by carvjo View Post
    Good IT Staff should earn as much (or more) than Teaching staff..

    I used to teach GNVQ IT (in the UK) then A Level Computer Science (Overseas) -whilst working as IT Manager in those schools. My stint overseas was a teaching hours contract where I enjoyed the long holidays... (The schools paid for me to get a teaching qualification) I have always been paid fairly and on-par, or better than teaching staff.

    I no longer teach, but wouldn't mind doing so if there was a need.
    Tell that to the People deciding IT Technicians require no knowledge or skill - just search job evaluation on the forums!

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    Quote Originally Posted by glennda View Post
    Tell that to the People deciding IT Technicians require no knowledge or skill - just search job evaluation on the forums!
    Vote with your feet - move to an employer that will value you, pay you appropriately and pay for training..

    In education that may mean Independent or International schools..

  18. #29

    elsiegee40's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carvjo
    In education that may mean Independent or International schools..
    I work in an independent prep (primary).

    I've turned down the "opportunity" to add teaching to my tasks

    Twice.

    It's no different to state schools.

  19. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by SimpleSi View Post
    That's one of the saddest posts I've ever seen on here

    AFAIC I'm employed to help the schools I work in - if I've got certain skills - then I'm not going to say "thats not in my job description" - I'm going to do my best to help.
    You're obviously entitled to your opinion but I don't see what's sad about it. An IT professional who happens to work in a school saying "No I won't teach; I'm not a teaching professional" isn't very different to an IT Professional who works for a law firm saying "No, I won't advise company clients about internet law; I'm not a lawyer".

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