Live@edu vs Google Apps for Education

[neilault]

We currently have our own Microsoft Exchange 2010 server located onsite that provides email accounts to both Staff and Students (1GB max mailbox size for each user currently). The current "buzz" word with the head is CLOUD! And yes he knows that both Microsoft and Google provide free email based solutions. I kind of like the idea of Microsoft providing 25GB of Skydrive storage to each user with their Live@edu solution but it's not very easy to use at the moment with no ability to map network drives to it and no Android (the way we are heading with tablets) apps currently.

We have attempted to try the Live@edu trial by setting up a test subdomain and using this. Yes we will save money on storage but any software costs saved by getting rid of Microsoft Exchange 2010 from our license agreement will be replaced with getting Microsoft Forefront Identity Manager 2010. And this is where my experience so far is far from being pleased! Endless problems trying to get AD to sync via FIM2010 to the Outlook Live service. In fact still getting an error now with ps.outlook.com certificate revocation (any ideas on this one?).

Are any of you going down the Cloud email route? What way are you going? And is it worth it? And has anyone come across the Live@edu problem I am having?

[CyberNerd]

We chose Google apps over Live@edu :

unlimited storage for google docs, compared to 25GB skydrive.
More (non email) services for google apps than live@edu, eg picasa, video storage.
Cheaper (free) than office 365
Better integration with android, policies on android devices supporting our BYOD strategies.
Better AD integration
Better document collaboration system
document and calendar publishing direct to website


As with everything it takes time and training, definitely worth it.

[AngryTechnician]

We have Google Apps for education here and are reasonably happy with it, but I'd have to disagree with some of the above.

1. Google Docs storage is not "unlimited". The full details are here, but essentially while you'd be hard pushed to create native Google Docs documents that hit the limit, any files uploaded that are limited to 1GB of storage space.

2. Document collaboration is pretty good, but when it comes to using Google Docs for anything you ever want to use outside of Google Docs (i.e. you want to print or download it), it falls down. Pagination is horribly broken in any browser except Chrome when you print or download, so if you want kids to work on documents that will be printed for display, it is pretty frustrating.

I'd agree it is definitely easier to get AD sync working with Google Apps, though it's not very secure in its default configuration due to the way it stores password hashes. I'd still choose Google Apps over Live@Edu for primary, if for no other reason that being able to disable services you don't want (e.g. Google Talk), but I'm not so sure about secondary.

[CyberNerd]

We have Google Apps for education here and are reasonably happy with it, but I'd have to disagree with some of the above.

1. Google Docs storage is not "unlimited". The full details are here, but essentially while you'd be hard pushed to create native Google Docs documents that hit the limit, any files uploaded that are limited to 1GB of storage space.

These look like the per document limits AFAIK there is no limit on the number of google documents,

2. Document collaboration is pretty good, but when it comes to using Google Docs for anything you ever want to use outside of Google Docs (i.e. you want to print or download it), it falls down. Pagination is horribly broken in any browser except Chrome when you print or download, so if you want kids to work on documents that will be printed for display, it is pretty frustrating.

we use chrome, so didn't notice any problem with printing or downloading.

I'd agree it is definitely easier to get AD sync working with Google Apps, though it's not very secure in its default configuration due to the way it stores password hashes. I'd still choose Google Apps over Live@Edu for primary, if for no other reason that being able to disable services you don't want (e.g. Google Talk), but I'm not so sure about secondary.

That is a really bad way of setting up synchronisation. I would never encourage this method, and it certainly isn't the default.
Better method is to use a secure sign on direct to your AD which is how we did it.

[maark]

We are also looking at this - veering more towards google apps now - ironically because of better integration with AD.
Also heard reports that live@edu will be introducing charges though have not confirmed this.

[AngryTechnician]

What is currently available on Live@Edu will remain free. When it becomes Office 365 for Education there will be additional functionality you can opt to pay for, but the current offering remains free. Come the summer you will also get SharePoint and Lync for free too.

Details: Live@edu

CyberNerd: what method did you use for authenticating direct with your AD? I've been reluctant to expose an authentication server to the outside, which is partly why I took the approach I did (that and it was easy). GADS doesn't offer any way of syncing passwords other than storing the hash, so by 'default configuration', I meant 'default if you use GADS'.

[PiqueABoo]

Yes we will save money on storage but any software costs saved by getting rid of Microsoft Exchange 2010 from our license agreement will be replaced with getting Microsoft Forefront Identity Manager 2010.

If you're not bothered about syncing passwords, you can do that bit with not very much powershell run as a scheduled task.

any ideas on this one?

Are mscrl.microsoft.com, crl.microsoft.com reachable by the relevant account (possibly some service account?) through any local web/content fliltering? [I *think* those are the right CRL points]

[neilault]

If you're not bothered about syncing passwords, you can do that bit with not very much powershell run as a scheduled task.



Are mscrl.microsoft.com, crl.microsoft.com reachable by the relevant account (possibly some service account?) through any local web/content fliltering? [I *think* those are the right CRL points]

Students and staff would go nuts if we didn't have synced AD passwords and single-sign on. Do yo uknow how difficult it is to remember multiple passwords?

Not sure on those domain, will take a look in a minute. Had to get a load of domains and ports unblocked by SWGfL just to get this far! I will be so glad when we leave the local grid! I have also contacted Live@edu to ask for support and they are "working on it" apparently.

[PiqueABoo]

Students and staff would go nuts if we didn't have synced AD passwords and single-sign on. Do yo uknow how difficult it is to remember multiple passwords?

Fair enough, I've dealt with a few schools who've long had external mail and other external bits & bobs without that sync-magic so not-syncing with Live@Edu is business as usual and doesn't appear to bother them.

I've got a split-personality over this.. on the one hand you can manage them (ensure not too crackable), but SSO does have the eggs in one basket problem.

[neilault]

Fair enough, I've dealt with a few schools who've long had external mail and other external bits & bobs without that sync-magic so not-syncing with Live@Edu is business as usual and doesn't appear to bother them.

I've got a split-personality over this.. on the one hand you can manage them (ensure not too crackable), but SSO does have the eggs in one basket problem.

We currently have an onsite Exhange 2010 Server so all students and staff are used to their standard domain login externally and single sign-on when onsite. I really don't want to have to replace this to be honest, I feel it gives up much more control over email etc than either Live@edu or Google Apps for Education can give. Not taking the other features into account. Just that for now, CLOUD is the word!

[gshaw]

Office 365 will give you better control than Live@Edu so would recommend you start on the new platform if you go down the MS route. FIM and ADFS will be easier to manage than LiveIDs once set up.

Also factor in Lync and Sharepoint on 365 and it's a good offering, only thing Google have the edge for my needs is Moodle integration via the respository function... how I could do with that with Live@Edu / 365!

[akiramoto]

One thing I absolutely hated about Google apps is that many of the emails are flagged as "phishing", those are email sent from Google apps emails to GMAIL... so it's gmail flagging it's own emails. I know that MX records are ours, but still...

[AngryTechnician]

Do you have an SPF record configured for your domain? That might help with the spam filtering.

[zag]

Live@edu all the way with windows 8 coming soon integration will be awesome. No more local student logins one day, they will just use their live ID.

Saying that though, I heard a rumour google will be releasing a cloud storage feature to match skydrive soon.

[CyberNerd]

Live@edu all the way with windows 8 coming soon integration will be awesome. No more local student logins one day, they will just use their live ID.

Being able to ditch Active Directory would be a bonus for live@edu.
Anything to reduce the number of onsite software is good IMO.