+ Post New Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 16
How do you do....it? Thread, Live@edu vs Google Apps for Education in Technical; We currently have our own Microsoft Exchange 2010 server located onsite that provides email accounts to both Staff and Students ...
  1. #1
    neilault's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Newton Abbot
    Posts
    47
    Thank Post
    4
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
    Rep Power
    0

    Question Live@edu vs Google Apps for Education

    We currently have our own Microsoft Exchange 2010 server located onsite that provides email accounts to both Staff and Students (1GB max mailbox size for each user currently). The current "buzz" word with the head is CLOUD! And yes he knows that both Microsoft and Google provide free email based solutions. I kind of like the idea of Microsoft providing 25GB of Skydrive storage to each user with their Live@edu solution but it's not very easy to use at the moment with no ability to map network drives to it and no Android (the way we are heading with tablets) apps currently.

    We have attempted to try the Live@edu trial by setting up a test subdomain and using this. Yes we will save money on storage but any software costs saved by getting rid of Microsoft Exchange 2010 from our license agreement will be replaced with getting Microsoft Forefront Identity Manager 2010. And this is where my experience so far is far from being pleased! Endless problems trying to get AD to sync via FIM2010 to the Outlook Live service. In fact still getting an error now with ps.outlook.com certificate revocation (any ideas on this one?).

    Are any of you going down the Cloud email route? What way are you going? And is it worth it? And has anyone come across the Live@edu problem I am having?

  2. #2


    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    8,202
    Thank Post
    442
    Thanked 1,032 Times in 812 Posts
    Rep Power
    339
    We chose Google apps over Live@edu :

    unlimited storage for google docs, compared to 25GB skydrive.
    More (non email) services for google apps than live@edu, eg picasa, video storage.
    Cheaper (free) than office 365
    Better integration with android, policies on android devices supporting our BYOD strategies.
    Better AD integration
    Better document collaboration system
    document and calendar publishing direct to website


    As with everything it takes time and training, definitely worth it.

  3. #3

    AngryTechnician's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    3,730
    Thank Post
    698
    Thanked 1,212 Times in 761 Posts
    Rep Power
    395
    We have Google Apps for education here and are reasonably happy with it, but I'd have to disagree with some of the above.

    1. Google Docs storage is not "unlimited". The full details are here, but essentially while you'd be hard pushed to create native Google Docs documents that hit the limit, any files uploaded that are limited to 1GB of storage space.

    2. Document collaboration is pretty good, but when it comes to using Google Docs for anything you ever want to use outside of Google Docs (i.e. you want to print or download it), it falls down. Pagination is horribly broken in any browser except Chrome when you print or download, so if you want kids to work on documents that will be printed for display, it is pretty frustrating.

    I'd agree it is definitely easier to get AD sync working with Google Apps, though it's not very secure in its default configuration due to the way it stores password hashes. I'd still choose Google Apps over Live@Edu for primary, if for no other reason that being able to disable services you don't want (e.g. Google Talk), but I'm not so sure about secondary.
    Last edited by AngryTechnician; 30th March 2012 at 10:17 AM.

  4. #4


    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    8,202
    Thank Post
    442
    Thanked 1,032 Times in 812 Posts
    Rep Power
    339
    Quote Originally Posted by AngryTechnician View Post
    We have Google Apps for education here and are reasonably happy with it, but I'd have to disagree with some of the above.

    1. Google Docs storage is not "unlimited". The full details are here, but essentially while you'd be hard pushed to create native Google Docs documents that hit the limit, any files uploaded that are limited to 1GB of storage space.
    These look like the per document limits AFAIK there is no limit on the number of google documents,

    Quote Originally Posted by AngryTechnician View Post
    2. Document collaboration is pretty good, but when it comes to using Google Docs for anything you ever want to use outside of Google Docs (i.e. you want to print or download it), it falls down. Pagination is horribly broken in any browser except Chrome when you print or download, so if you want kids to work on documents that will be printed for display, it is pretty frustrating.
    we use chrome, so didn't notice any problem with printing or downloading.
    Quote Originally Posted by AngryTechnician View Post
    I'd agree it is definitely easier to get AD sync working with Google Apps, though it's not very secure in its default configuration due to the way it stores password hashes. I'd still choose Google Apps over Live@Edu for primary, if for no other reason that being able to disable services you don't want (e.g. Google Talk), but I'm not so sure about secondary.
    That is a really bad way of setting up synchronisation. I would never encourage this method, and it certainly isn't the default.
    Better method is to use a secure sign on direct to your AD which is how we did it.

  5. #5
    maark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    leicester
    Posts
    474
    Thank Post
    90
    Thanked 74 Times in 66 Posts
    Rep Power
    38
    We are also looking at this - veering more towards google apps now - ironically because of better integration with AD.
    Also heard reports that live@edu will be introducing charges though have not confirmed this.

  6. #6

    AngryTechnician's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    3,730
    Thank Post
    698
    Thanked 1,212 Times in 761 Posts
    Rep Power
    395
    What is currently available on Live@Edu will remain free. When it becomes Office 365 for Education there will be additional functionality you can opt to pay for, but the current offering remains free. Come the summer you will also get SharePoint and Lync for free too.

    Details: Live@edu

    CyberNerd: what method did you use for authenticating direct with your AD? I've been reluctant to expose an authentication server to the outside, which is partly why I took the approach I did (that and it was easy). GADS doesn't offer any way of syncing passwords other than storing the hash, so by 'default configuration', I meant 'default if you use GADS'.
    Last edited by AngryTechnician; 30th March 2012 at 12:44 PM.

  7. #7

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Surburbia
    Posts
    2,178
    Thank Post
    74
    Thanked 307 Times in 243 Posts
    Rep Power
    115
    Quote Originally Posted by neilault View Post
    Yes we will save money on storage but any software costs saved by getting rid of Microsoft Exchange 2010 from our license agreement will be replaced with getting Microsoft Forefront Identity Manager 2010.
    If you're not bothered about syncing passwords, you can do that bit with not very much powershell run as a scheduled task.

    any ideas on this one?
    Are mscrl.microsoft.com, crl.microsoft.com reachable by the relevant account (possibly some service account?) through any local web/content fliltering? [I *think* those are the right CRL points]

  8. #8
    neilault's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Newton Abbot
    Posts
    47
    Thank Post
    4
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by PiqueABoo View Post
    If you're not bothered about syncing passwords, you can do that bit with not very much powershell run as a scheduled task.



    Are mscrl.microsoft.com, crl.microsoft.com reachable by the relevant account (possibly some service account?) through any local web/content fliltering? [I *think* those are the right CRL points]
    Students and staff would go nuts if we didn't have synced AD passwords and single-sign on. Do yo uknow how difficult it is to remember multiple passwords?

    Not sure on those domain, will take a look in a minute. Had to get a load of domains and ports unblocked by SWGfL just to get this far! I will be so glad when we leave the local grid! I have also contacted Live@edu to ask for support and they are "working on it" apparently.

  9. #9

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Surburbia
    Posts
    2,178
    Thank Post
    74
    Thanked 307 Times in 243 Posts
    Rep Power
    115
    Students and staff would go nuts if we didn't have synced AD passwords and single-sign on. Do yo uknow how difficult it is to remember multiple passwords?
    Fair enough, I've dealt with a few schools who've long had external mail and other external bits & bobs without that sync-magic so not-syncing with Live@Edu is business as usual and doesn't appear to bother them.

    I've got a split-personality over this.. on the one hand you can manage them (ensure not too crackable), but SSO does have the eggs in one basket problem.
    Last edited by PiqueABoo; 30th March 2012 at 01:20 PM.

  10. #10
    neilault's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Newton Abbot
    Posts
    47
    Thank Post
    4
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by PiqueABoo View Post
    Fair enough, I've dealt with a few schools who've long had external mail and other external bits & bobs without that sync-magic so not-syncing with Live@Edu is business as usual and doesn't appear to bother them.

    I've got a split-personality over this.. on the one hand you can manage them (ensure not too crackable), but SSO does have the eggs in one basket problem.
    We currently have an onsite Exhange 2010 Server so all students and staff are used to their standard domain login externally and single sign-on when onsite. I really don't want to have to replace this to be honest, I feel it gives up much more control over email etc than either Live@edu or Google Apps for Education can give. Not taking the other features into account. Just that for now, CLOUD is the word!

  11. #11
    gshaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Essex
    Posts
    2,662
    Thank Post
    166
    Thanked 220 Times in 203 Posts
    Rep Power
    67
    Office 365 will give you better control than Live@Edu so would recommend you start on the new platform if you go down the MS route. FIM and ADFS will be easier to manage than LiveIDs once set up.

    Also factor in Lync and Sharepoint on 365 and it's a good offering, only thing Google have the edge for my needs is Moodle integration via the respository function... how I could do with that with Live@Edu / 365!

  12. #12
    akiramoto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    3
    Thank Post
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Rep Power
    0
    One thing I absolutely hated about Google apps is that many of the emails are flagged as "phishing", those are email sent from Google apps emails to GMAIL... so it's gmail flagging it's own emails. I know that MX records are ours, but still...

  13. #13

    AngryTechnician's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    3,730
    Thank Post
    698
    Thanked 1,212 Times in 761 Posts
    Rep Power
    395
    Do you have an SPF record configured for your domain? That might help with the spam filtering.

  14. #14
    zag
    zag is offline
    zag's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    3,829
    Thank Post
    918
    Thanked 422 Times in 355 Posts
    Blog Entries
    12
    Rep Power
    88
    Live@edu all the way with windows 8 coming soon integration will be awesome. No more local student logins one day, they will just use their live ID.

    Saying that though, I heard a rumour google will be releasing a cloud storage feature to match skydrive soon.

  15. #15


    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    8,202
    Thank Post
    442
    Thanked 1,032 Times in 812 Posts
    Rep Power
    339
    Quote Originally Posted by zag View Post
    Live@edu all the way with windows 8 coming soon integration will be awesome. No more local student logins one day, they will just use their live ID.
    Being able to ditch Active Directory would be a bonus for live@edu.
    Anything to reduce the number of onsite software is good IMO.

SHARE:
+ Post New Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Google Apps for Education as a Fronter replacement.
    By MrBitey in forum Virtual Learning Platforms
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 6th February 2013, 11:00 PM
  2. Microsoft live@edu Vs Google Apps for Education.
    By Sentro in forum Educational Software
    Replies: 94
    Last Post: 27th October 2011, 09:46 AM
  3. Live@Edu & Google Apps for Education
    By Frazer in forum CLEO
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 7th April 2011, 03:08 PM
  4. Why use live@edu or Google Apps for Education- discuss
    By SimpleSi in forum General Chat
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: 10th March 2011, 11:03 AM
  5. Google Apps for Education - Single Sign-On
    By enjay in forum How do you do....it?
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 9th December 2010, 07:43 PM

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •