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How do you do....it? Thread, Server Virtualisation..The options? Your opinions & feedback... in Technical; Yup we have Veeam as well, felt weird moving after so many years of Backup Exec but the difference in ...
  1. #31
    gshaw's Avatar
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    Yup we have Veeam as well, felt weird moving after so many years of Backup Exec but the difference in price (Veeam much much lower) and features (Veeam much more) meant it was a no-brainer.

    @RTFM, your setup sounds ideal for Veeam as your 4th host could run a basic VMWare license then use Veeam Replication to run a standby copy of the VMs for DR purposes. Wish I could do that here but I haven't got anywhere to put another server outside of the server room

  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by gshaw View Post
    @RTFM, your setup sounds ideal for Veeam as your 4th host could run a basic VMWare license then use Veeam Replication to run a standby copy of the VMs for DR purposes. Wish I could do that here but I haven't got anywhere to put another server outside of the server room
    NetApp have their own inbuilt software (Snapvault) so we dont actually use Veeam The 4th host and storage in the secondary server room at a pinch could do what we need it to do for critical systems but I think the ideal plan is to have another NetApp in the other building and then replicate them and chuck an extra host in there too.
    Last edited by RTFM; 24th November 2011 at 10:03 AM.

  3. #33
    gshaw's Avatar
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    Ahh fair do's, think I remember it now from when we looked at the FAS series (luckily you haven't got the 2020 which had some awful feedback due to the slow CPU)

    A 2nd SAN... can I have your budget please

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    Quote Originally Posted by gshaw View Post
    Ahh fair do's, think I remember it now from when we looked at the FAS series (luckily you haven't got the 2020 which had some awful feedback due to the slow CPU)

    A 2nd SAN... can I have your budget please
    We actually did look at the 2020 simply due to the fact we got a quote saying we could have had 2 for the same price as 1 of the 2040's.

    It was feedback on here and from the company doing the install about the 2020 being a little slow that pushed us towards the 2040. The 2020 also wasnt as expandable as the 2040.

    We're just spending up whilst we have it, the second SAN is only an idea *shrug*

  5. #35
    gshaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RTFM View Post
    We're just spending up whilst we have it, the second SAN is only an idea *shrug*
    It's a good one to do if you can, especially in a separate building, covers your DR very nicely

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    Quote Originally Posted by MYK-IT View Post
    I had read about VMware being able to be installed like that, even on a SD Card installed internally.
    HDD-less physical servers would mean money towards a SAN.

    What version of VMWare are you using? and backup methods?

    Thanks
    Yep we're running VMware on a SD card but we have no SAN.

    We got the VMware essentials bundle which includes three host licences and the Vcentre licence. (Vcenter is worth every penny)

    We use Veeam to replicate and back up our VMs

    I still use DPM to back up our data, file recovery is much simpler and quicker with DPM.

    Currently have 2 hosts,
    R710, with 48G Ram and 8x 600Gb (15K SAS) drives and a T710 exact spec but with 10 drives

    Both servers are physically separated across the site

    Veeam replicates our live VMs on the R710 to the T710.
    Veeam backs up our VMs to the DPM server in a third physical location

    The T710 rather than sit idle with replicated DMs onboard actually runs 5 RDS servers in a farm. We use this for our older laptops to be useful, they make a remote desktop to them.
    We also use Sonicwall to give RDP connections at home to the Farm.

    So no SAN sure you lose the ability to move VMs in a fraction of a second. But I didn't really see a need for that and the SAN then becomes a single point of Failure in the event it does.

    Happy to provide more info if you need it. I'm loving our setup and virtualisation in general. Create a server in seconds (from a template I've created) fantastic.

    Currently virtualised
    1 AD server
    File servers
    Web server
    WDS server
    5 RDS servers
    Print server
    SIMS server
    Library server
    Moodle server
    finance server
    Vcentre server (but might not have been the best option to do so)
    SCCM server

    I may use our third licence to vitualise our IPCCTV server.
    What am I running physically now apart from the IPCCTV
    well 2 AD server (all AD servers do DNS/DHCP too)
    and the old RIS server that hosts a few apps (one needing a usb dongle)
    Last edited by Finch7; 24th November 2011 at 11:17 AM.

  7. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheScarfedOne View Post
    Stay tuned to my blog on here, and links over on Microsoft Schools blog as I will be detailing our solution using HyperV and two R710s, 1 MD3200 SAN. Didnt cost the earth either - I had a very limited budget too!

    A couple of quick answers tho... yes, cluster your Hyper V. Why? Well, you can then do the rebooting of Physical servers with no downtime. You can let HyperV migrate them around for you. We had this demonstrated perfectly when we had a UPS power board fail taking out a server. Yes, the VM OSs will need updating, but let WSUS take care of that, and reboot for the ones that need it out of hours by scheduled tasks.

    A quick whistly stop, but any qs message me. There will be articles soon on this. If you are in the southwest - or can get here, you are welcome to come and take a look.
    I like the look of this Dell stuff but maybe will need some help configuring what I will need. I will want 2 R710 servers and 1 SAN - but am not sure what. I may have to start with 1 R710 and move from there. We don't really need the heartbeat stuff but will need to backup our virtual machines.

    Any help in the near future will be appreciated. I'm starting to put our bid together now.

    What server spec have you got for your R710s and SAN? Did you get them direct from Dell?

    Gareth

  8. #38

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    Progressing a bit more on this project, some more queries that I hope others can assist with.

    Backup
    'If' we had 2 (or 3 nodes for redundancy) using VMware vSphere 5 Essentials Plus would Microsoft's DPM 2010 running on a separate NAS (DELL NX3100 for example) work/be adequate for backups? Combined with the 'snapshotting' feature of a SAN?

    Only looking at DPM2010 as the cost is hardly anything, especially in comparison to if we upgraded to Backup Exec 2010 for example (with all the agents etc.).

    I know many have mentioned Veeam, and version 6 is out now but can someone explain its costs, how it is licenced etc.? Thanks

    Licencing
    Can someone clarify that I have understood the licencing correctly?

    Windows 2008 R2 Enterprise will allow 4 (virtual instances) of Server to be installed per licence.

    Windows 2008 R2 Datacentre will allow an unlimited (virtual instances) of Server to be installed but is licenced per physical CPU per physical server (node).
    So if we have 2 nodes (each with 2 physical CPUs) that would require 4 licences?
    If we had 3 nodes (which ideally are required for redundancy for virtualisation) could we still only use 4 licences? As the 3rd node would only be used if node 1 or 2 failed?

    What is the correct/recommended method of procuring the Server 2008 R2 licences now? As EES I believe Microsoft EES is for desktop but would cover the Server CALs?

    Hyper-V
    To be honest I've not seen the full potential of Hyper-V as an (cheaper) alternative to VMware.
    Does anyone know if the article was published on the Microsoft's School Blog in relation to using 2x R710 with Hyper-V? as that sounds very similar to a setup configuration we are looking at.

    Many thanks,

  9. #39

    Domino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MYK-IT View Post
    Progressing a bit more on this project, some more queries that I hope others can assist with.

    Licencing
    Can someone clarify that I have understood the licencing correctly?

    Windows 2008 R2 Enterprise will allow 4 (virtual instances) of Server to be installed per licence.

    Windows 2008 R2 Datacentre will allow an unlimited (virtual instances) of Server to be installed but is licenced per physical CPU per physical server (node).
    So if we have 2 nodes (each with 2 physical CPUs) that would require 4 licences?
    If we had 3 nodes (which ideally are required for redundancy for virtualisation) could we still only use 4 licences? As the 3rd node would only be used if node 1 or 2 failed?
    Nope, you licence Physical Processors. That means any processors the vm's licenced by datacenter can run on need to be licenced for datacentre edition.

    Quote Originally Posted by MYK-IT View Post
    Hyper-V
    To be honest I've not seen the full potential of Hyper-V as an (cheaper) alternative to VMware.
    We're looking to move our internal infrastructure from vmware to hyper-v, as the vmware licencing for 60 CPUs is getting ridiculous, and with datacentre processor licencing in place we're only needing to licence SCVMM to get very close to the same functionality. VMware vSphere 4 vs. Microsoft Hyper-V R2 - Whitepaper | CTI Strategy Blog

    I'm hoping to get out first UK based Hyper-v cluster up in the next few weeks, so may well write up the experience, coming from a vmware background.

  10. #40
    gshaw's Avatar
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    You could use DPM but it won't give you full VM-level recovery unless you use Hyper-V. Personally once I go virtual I'd want to be able to recover all my virtual machines for DR so whether you go VMWare \ Veeam or Hyper-V \ DPM (or also Hyper-V \ Veeam) it's a better strategy than just having file-level backups imo.

    Snapshots on the SAN will need to be application-consistent for VM snaps to be of any use, depends on your SAN and features licensing...

    Windows Datacenter licensing is awesome, definitely one of Microsoft's best offers

    @Domino... 60 CPUs wow, how big is your site for that little lot... 30 dual CPU VM host servers?
    Last edited by gshaw; 6th December 2011 at 10:11 AM.

  11. #41

    Domino's Avatar
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    That's over our global sites - we've a fair few clusters in that ;-) The vmware EA isn't as good value as it used to be either :-(

    It's also likely to double next year, so unless there's something really wrong with hyper-v it's the way to go for us.

  12. #42

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    Just another query regarding MS DPM and Hyper-V.

    If we had 3 nodes (2 used +1 for redundancy)

    Would I be correct in stating that we could just purchase 3x MS DPM Enterprise Licences?
    This would allow us to backup all virtualised servers but not at file level?

    But if we wanted to backup each virtualised server at file level (say 12, 6 per node) we would have to purchase 12x MS DPM Standard Licences (Enterprise Licences for any Exchange/SQL servers) and this would allow us to install the DPM agent on each virtualised server?

    Thanks,

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheScarfedOne View Post
    Stay tuned to my blog on here, and links over on Microsoft Schools blog as I will be detailing our solution using HyperV and two R710s, 1 MD3200 SAN. Didnt cost the earth either - I had a very limited budget too!

    A couple of quick answers tho... yes, cluster your Hyper V. Why? Well, you can then do the rebooting of Physical servers with no downtime. You can let HyperV migrate them around for you. We had this demonstrated perfectly when we had a UPS power board fail taking out a server. Yes, the VM OSs will need updating, but let WSUS take care of that, and reboot for the ones that need it out of hours by scheduled tasks.

    A quick whistly stop, but any qs message me. There will be articles soon on this. If you are in the southwest - or can get here, you are welcome to come and take a look.
    TheScarfedOne,

    Is this the blog you were talking about?

    Microsoft UK Education - Further Education blog - Further Education blog

    When are the next installments planned for release?

    Thanks,

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheScarfedOne View Post
    Stay tuned to my blog on here, and links over on Microsoft Schools blog as I will be detailing our solution using HyperV and two R710s, 1 MD3200 SAN. Didnt cost the earth either - I had a very limited budget too!

    A couple of quick answers tho... yes, cluster your Hyper V. Why? Well, you can then do the rebooting of Physical servers with no downtime. You can let HyperV migrate them around for you. We had this demonstrated perfectly when we had a UPS power board fail taking out a server. Yes, the VM OSs will need updating, but let WSUS take care of that, and reboot for the ones that need it out of hours by scheduled tasks.

    A quick whistly stop, but any qs message me. There will be articles soon on this. If you are in the southwest - or can get here, you are welcome to come and take a look.
    Where can I view the blog you speak of?

  15. #45
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    Has anyone looked at the free Microsoft Hyper-V Server (not Windows server 2008 with Hyper-V installed) as an alternative to ESXi ?

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