How do you do....it? Thread, How do you.....explain to a teacher what is legal and illegal..... in Technical; Examples:
1. Can you download this BBC clip that someone has put on youtube and make a DVD of it ...
23rd November 2010, 12:20 PM #1
How do you.....explain to a teacher what is legal and illegal.....
1. Can you download this BBC clip that someone has put on youtube and make a DVD of it for me?
2. Here is an audio CD someone from another school has lent me, can you copy it to the network so students can take copies or use in lessons?
3. Is it possible to save a clip from Channel 4 on demand?
Has anyone got or compliled a list of things like the above that are illegal?
I'd like to collate a list and email it to all staff so that they can see what they are often asking for is against the law.
Similarly there may be things that come to light that we THINK are illegal that are actually allowable.
Anyone jumped through this hoop before - I'd be grateful of you sharing your experience.
23rd November 2010, 12:30 PM #2
I tried to come up with an agreement on illegal material when I became System Admin at my old school but was overruled by the head. Teachers just complained to him that they couldn't do their lessons and he said 'do what they want, he'll deal with the consequences'.
23rd November 2010, 12:31 PM #3
I've just recieved a pile of leaflets from these people.
Originally Posted by kennysarmy
Childnet International - Music, Film, TV and the Internet
They look like they could be a good starting point.
Thanks to jcollings from:
elsiegee40 (23rd November 2010)
23rd November 2010, 12:59 PM #4
you should be ok with bbc and channel 4 stuff provided it has been shown on TV and you have an ERA liecnse
The ERA Licensing Scheme
23rd November 2010, 01:03 PM #5
This is very dodgy - my understanding is that as the person who actually does the deed, you are as liable as the one who told you to do it
Originally Posted by roty80
23rd November 2010, 01:05 PM #6
My rule is this - I am the person who makes the final decision on whether something is legal or not when it comes to getting me to copy something. It is me who would be breaking copyright law by copying it, and as such no amount of head teachers overruling me would make the slightest bit of difference.
So, if I discover that a disc isn't ours or we don't have copyright permission to copy it, I will simply refuse to do it. Much like I'd refuse if someone told me to steal something.
There's no simple way of getting teachers to understand copyright laws - as in most cases they simply don't care (in my experience).
23rd November 2010, 01:07 PM #7
I agree with Witch on this one you are the one committing the crime not the Head.
23rd November 2010, 01:14 PM #8
My suggestion would be (as I have told staff here) if you want to download a clip from somewhere, ZamZar.com is a good place to start, but please be aware of any copyright infringement this may cause. Then follow it up with a 'if something that is in violation of copyright is found on any of the school hardward (which I feel should include USB Memory sticks as staff shouldn't be using their own) it will be deleted immediately with no warning.
Now, as to whether you follow that up or not is up to you, but instead you've given them access to a legal service, but if they choose to use it to illegally download material and use it within the school, then that is up to them.
The one thing I certainly wouldn't be doing is downloading the information myself, because of the reasons mentioned above.
23rd November 2010, 01:21 PM #9
Hence the reason I no longer work there.
Originally Posted by JJonas
It was his way or you get pushed out. I fortunately managed to find another job before I was pushed.
The NM said he was told: I don't want to hear excuses, I tell you what to do and you do it.
Last edited by roty80; 23rd November 2010 at 01:23 PM.
23rd November 2010, 01:55 PM #10
If someone is asking you to do something illegal then you don't do it full stop, there is nothing they can say or do that will make any difference in fact let them sack you for it and then they will suffer the consequences of what happens after just make sure you make a note of everything.
23rd November 2010, 02:05 PM #11
Actually, you are not. To quote from ERA Licences and Catch up Television
Originally Posted by CyberNerd
and similar video on-demand services
Can I use programmes that are made available on Catch up TV services and similar video on demand services such as BBC iPlayer, ITV Player, Channel 4 VOD, Demand Five, S4C /Clic, You Tube, SeeSaw, MSN, Blinkbox and similar services under an ERA or ERA Plus licence?
No. The ERA Licence does not cover the use of programmes when they are delivered within these services.
<snip> Go and look at the page to find out more! :-)
23rd November 2010, 02:07 PM #12
I don't have a pre-made list but I can answer all of your initial questions:
1. The recording can only be made by an ERA licence holder, or by a third party under contract by the licence holder. The recording must also be marked with:
- the name of the broadcaster,
- the date upon which the broadcast took place,
- and the title of the recording.
To provide sufficient acknowledgement all copies shall be marked with a statement in clear and bold lettering reading: "This recording is to be used only for non-commercial educational purposes under the terms of the ERA Licence" or such other wording or statement as ERA shall reasonably require from time to time.
Physical copies shall include the statement on the exterior of the copy, and/or its packaging.
When under the Licence copies are made and stored in digital form for access through a computer server, the statement shall also be included as a written opening credit or webpage which must be viewed or listened to before access to the ERA Recording is permitted.
2. As far as I know, none of the available copyright licences available to schools make provision for copying CDs (unless they are not covered by copyright, or you have express permission from the copyright holder). This is true even if the school owns the CD.
As a side note, even ripping a CD you own for your own use is not technically legal, as UK copyright law does not currently include a fair use provision such as that which exists in US law. (Indirect source: BBC NEWS | Business | UK 'has the worst copyright laws')
3. Even if it were technically feasible, this is expressly not covered by the ERA licence.
Source: The ERA Licensing Scheme
More information: A Guide to Copyright Licensing in Schools
On the topic of being instructed to do these things by SMT, this is just one more reason to be in a union. Nobody can be instructed to do something illegal in the course of their work (even in the Armed Forces you can legitimately refuse an illegal order), and your union's legal department will back you 100%.
3 Thanks to AngryTechnician:
gwendes (23rd November 2010), joe90bass (23rd November 2010), nawbus (23rd November 2010)
23rd November 2010, 03:01 PM #13
My position is simple. I won't do anything illegal.
If someone else wants to do it be it a trainee teacher or the head - they can carry right on but they can do it themselves if neccasary at home, I won't have anything to do with it.
23rd November 2010, 03:42 PM #14
I always say "Yes, of course, no problem, just as soon as you can give me a letter from the copyright holder saying that's OK"
To be fair - a couple have actual managed to do this, but thats all in the last 7 years.
23rd November 2010, 03:47 PM #15
Usually with a big stick!!
Originally Posted by kennysarmy
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