+ Post New Thread
Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 71
How do you do....it? Thread, Prevent hard drive changes in Technical; Originally Posted by NetworkGeezer @Royg two things: If even if server security is a 100%, if students or other non-repsonsible ...
  1. #16

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    162
    Thank Post
    3
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
    Rep Power
    19

    Re: Prevent hard drive changes

    Quote Originally Posted by NetworkGeezer
    @Royg two things:

    If even if server security is a 100%, if students or other non-repsonsible users have admin access to a client PC they can use it for phishing. I hope you don't login into the machines with server or personal credentials.
    They will also have access to other user profiles which maybe not inline with DPA.
    At the very least they will be able to play games and such which also goes the reason why they are in school in the first place.

  2. #17

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    1,187
    Thank Post
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
    Rep Power
    0

    Re: Prevent hard drive changes

    OK I have edited the post but my central thrust still remains when kids have admin rights on a machine they own. OK you may argue that a reboot will remove any sniffers and the like but that's if the machine is always rebooted at the end of a user session.

    Students should only be able to run software that has been provided for them by authorised personnel. Unless Group Policies or other measures are in place the kids run whatever they like, games and/or malware.

  3. #18

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    162
    Thank Post
    3
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
    Rep Power
    19

    Re: Prevent hard drive changes

    Ooops! Try again!

    Quote Originally Posted by NetworkGeezer
    @Royg two things:

    If even if server security is a 100%, if students or other non-repsonsible users have admin access to a client PC they can use it for phishing. I hope you don't login into the machines with server or personal credentials.
    They will also have access to other user profiles which maybe not inline with DPA.
    Very rarely log on as admin, and if I do the computer always gets restarted - problem solved! The log-off user option is disabled so kids have to restart machines after use - that's about the only policy used.

    At the very least they will be able to play games and such which also goes the reason why they are in school in the first place.
    Games - you really could spend your entire life trying to physically prevent kids from playing games - and still fail! Block every known games .exe file? Block every known games website? The responsibility for keeping kids on task in a lesson is the teacher's. It really doesn't matter whether the gamer is using a PC, a PSP, a pack of cards or pair of dice! By all means help the teacher, but don't take sole responsibility for their class discipline!

    RoyG (ex-teacher!)

  4. #19

    webman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    North East England
    Posts
    8,421
    Thank Post
    644
    Thanked 967 Times in 667 Posts
    Blog Entries
    2
    Rep Power
    328

    Re: Prevent hard drive changes

    You simply stop pupils from running EXEs from their Work areas or %temp% in combination with a reliable web filter/firewall.

  5. #20

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    162
    Thank Post
    3
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
    Rep Power
    19

    Re: Prevent hard drive changes

    Quote Originally Posted by webman
    You simply stop pupils from running EXEs from their Work areas or %temp%
    Sorry - just far too crude. There are plenty of .exe files I'm more than happy for them to run, to encourage them to experiment, to encourage them to program & compile etc. etc. If you apply such a sledge-hammer approach the kids will never be onside with you and will find other less subtle ways of screwing things up!

    in combination with a reliable web filter/firewall.
    If you've found a web filter that blocks ALL games sites, let me know and I'll recommend E2BL to use it!

    RoyG

  6. #21
    wesleyw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Kingswinford
    Posts
    2,218
    Thank Post
    230
    Thanked 50 Times in 44 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1
    Rep Power
    31

    Re: Prevent hard drive changes

    And of course an allow this with paths as well as filename would mean you wouldn't have to keep adding new EXEs all the time to the blacklist!

    Wes

  7. #22

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Chelmsford
    Posts
    115
    Thank Post
    0
    Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
    Rep Power
    19

    Re: Prevent hard drive changes

    Roy and I have chatted about these cards for some time. We are putting 380 new desktops in this summer and guess what - we can't afford the cards!! At about £30 a go, the school reckons that my time (and the technicians) is paid for, so they might as well get us to run around ghosting, RISing, securing, anti-virusing, etc. Sadly, those with the hands on the purse strings can't see how KISS can really be beneficial. So it looks like cash for a software solution to the author of the question, or thin clients (as already stated).

  8. #23
    mark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    3,987
    Thank Post
    275
    Thanked 52 Times in 46 Posts
    Blog Entries
    2
    Rep Power
    48

    Re: Prevent hard drive changes

    Quote Originally Posted by RoyG
    Quote Originally Posted by webman
    You simply stop pupils from running EXEs from their Work areas or %temp%
    Sorry - just far too crude. There are plenty of .exe files I'm more than happy for them to run, to encourage them to experiment, to encourage them to program & compile etc. etc. If you apply such a sledge-hammer approach the kids will never be onside with you and will find other less subtle ways of screwing things up!

    in combination with a reliable web filter/firewall.
    If you've found a web filter that blocks ALL games sites, let me know and I'll recommend E2BL to use it!

    RoyG
    I like the analogy of driving a car - you will never experience the thrill of the open road whilst learning and accompanied by an instructor or other driver.

    I've seen a Deep Freeze setup and thought it wholly appropriate for adults. For school kids I can't see it working. Teachers being in full control of classrooms of kids is a pipe dream I think. You need to do what is reasonably possible to provide a safe working environment for your users. I know a lot of people bang on about personal freedoms and how kids should be free to experience everything - I personally thinks that's nonsense [/discuss lol]. Not that anyone here has suggested that, or that any solutions suggested don't work for you.

  9. #24

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    162
    Thank Post
    3
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
    Rep Power
    19

    Re: Prevent hard drive changes

    Quote Originally Posted by pmassingham
    Roy and I have chatted about these cards for some time. We are putting 380 new desktops in this summer and guess what - we can't afford the cards!! At about £30 a go, the school reckons that my time (and the technicians) is paid for, so they might as well get us to run around ghosting, RISing, securing, anti-virusing, etc. Sadly, those with the hands on the purse strings can't see how KISS can really be beneficial. So it looks like cash for a software solution to the author of the question, or thin clients (as already stated).
    Hard luck Peter - I think the bean-counters at your school have got it badly wrong! I wish you well in the task or installing & securing such a large replacement system.

    Quote Originally Posted by mark
    I like the analogy of driving a car - you will never experience the thrill of the open road whilst learning and accompanied by an instructor or other driver.
    True - as long as you have a little bit of instruction first!!

    I've seen a Deep Freeze setup and thought it wholly appropriate for adults. For school kids I can't see it working.
    All I can say is that the Reborn Card system (I guess a hardware version of DeepFreeze) really does work for us.

    Teachers being in full control of classrooms of kids is a pipe dream I think. You need to do what is reasonably possible to provide a safe working environment for your users.
    Agree with you, but emphasis on "reasonable"! But I also believe that you need to do what is reasonably possible to provide as stimulating a working environment as possible, which is not strangled by excessive controls & restrictions. What's the problem with kids changing their desktops or installing Portable Firefox, or compiling and testing some VB programs etc etc ......?

    I know a lot of people bang on about personal freedoms and how kids should be free to experience everything - I personally thinks that's nonsense [/discuss lol].
    Also agree, there are some things best not experienced at a young age, but care needs to be taken that restrictions don't also remove a bunch of valuable experiences. A balance is necessary.

    Final thought... By far the biggest benefit is to me! Using these cards has dramatically reduced the boring bit of my workload (fiddling with Group Policies, restoring images and so on). This academic year I have only had to do any repair or restoration work on 3 desktop machines that the kids use - 1 RAM failure and 2 HDD failures. Because the kids know how the cards work they simply don't bother any more to try to hack them.
    We actively encourage them to try new things, with no instances of any real hassle due to any exe files they run. The only example of problems was when some bright spark dumped a file called something like "the best game in the universe.exe" into a shared area. Anyone daft enough to run it found their home directory blitzed (easily restored from backup)! A month's ban from Computer Rooms (highly publicised!) seems to have prevented any other such tricks.

    I rest my case!

    RoyG

    P.S. Apologies for the long post. Have a good weekend!

  10. #25
    ajbritton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Wandsworth
    Posts
    1,632
    Thank Post
    23
    Thanked 75 Times in 45 Posts
    Rep Power
    35

    Re: Prevent hard drive changes

    If you use cards that protect your PCs, what protects any laptops on the network?

  11. #26
    ajbritton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Wandsworth
    Posts
    1,632
    Thank Post
    23
    Thanked 75 Times in 45 Posts
    Rep Power
    35

    Re: Prevent hard drive changes

    I would also point out that if you need to give your students a 'sandbox' to play in, you could install Virtual Server (free) on XP Pro machines and give them an XP guest PC (not sure of licensing implications) whith as little or as much network access as you want. The guest could use an Undo disk which is automatically discarded on reboot.

  12. #27

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    162
    Thank Post
    3
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
    Rep Power
    19

    Re: Prevent hard drive changes

    Quote Originally Posted by ajbritton
    If you use cards that protect your PCs, what protects any laptops on the network?
    A software version called EZBack

    RoyG

  13. #28
    mark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    3,987
    Thank Post
    275
    Thanked 52 Times in 46 Posts
    Blog Entries
    2
    Rep Power
    48

    Re: Prevent hard drive changes

    Very interesting RoyG. I dissalow firefox at the moment because I can't audit the kids activities as I do with IE. A weakness in the logoff script perhaps.

    I also never have to rebuild PCs because they're destroyed by the users, so I'm in the same happy position yourself on that score. I don't see the odd tweaking of Group Policies as any big deal.

    Your security issue i find very worrying. The work done that day, between backups was lost then. That alone really condemns your practice I think.

    Seeing how others are implementing virtual machines, I would like to try that method. Or arrange a small isolated network for those interested to experiment. Of course we're singing from the same songsheet really. I too would really like the kids to have as much and as wide an oportunity as possible.

  14. #29

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    162
    Thank Post
    3
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
    Rep Power
    19

    Re: Prevent hard drive changes

    Quote Originally Posted by mark
    Very interesting RoyG. I dissalow firefox at the moment because I can't audit the kids activities as I do with IE. A weakness in the logoff script perhaps.
    Not a problem, Novell BorderManager logs all webpages visited by users, regardless of whether it's via IE or Firefox.

    I also never have to rebuild PCs because they're destroyed by the users, so I'm in the same happy position yourself on that score. I don't see the odd tweaking of Group Policies as any big deal.
    It's still tedious!

    Your security issue i find very worrying. The work done that day, between backups was lost then. That alone really condemns your practice I think.
    Also not a problem, Netware Admin has a very effective salvage facility which can recover anything deleted in the past few days. I've very, very rarely had to use it.

    Seeing how others are implementing virtual machines, I would like to try that method. Or arrange a small isolated network for those interested to experiment. Of course we're singing from the same songsheet really. I too would really like the kids to have as much and as wide an oportunity as possible.
    I believe it's a question of culture - the more you restrict, the more the kids will fight.

    I've tried the heavy restriction option which drove me & the kids barmy, but very much prefer the "try what you like, it doesn't bother me" approach. This doesn't imply total freedom for the kids, obviously effective web filtering is essential. It's also essential to ensure that data is 100% secure, with backup & restore systems on servers, workstations & laptops.

    I can only repeat that in my school's particular situation the policies we have adopted have been really effective. The main benefit has been that all but a minute handful of the kids really appreciate the relative freedoms we've given them, with students, teaching staff & technical staff working with, rather than against each other.

    RoyG

  15. #30

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    537
    Thank Post
    2
    Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts
    Rep Power
    19

    Re: Prevent hard drive changes

    Ok the PCs are protected from damage, enforced restart between logon gets rid of phish-ware and security best practice on servers as a given.

    Job done? What happens during lesson time. Do you still run NetOp/NetSupport? Why should a student bother with a tedious database assigment when they can hone their coding skills or play 3D snooker.Are your teaching colleagues quite so happy that kids can do anything and hit the boss key when teacher draws near.

    Also what about the situation when the school is not the target of cracking activity but a remote site. I take it that BorderMangager is the Novell equivalent of ISA/Censornet. Do you block all protocols apart from HTTP, FTP and RTSP/MMS?



SHARE:
+ Post New Thread
Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Hard drive overheat
    By contink in forum Hardware
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 30th November 2007, 12:37 PM
  2. Hard Drive
    By Jackd in forum Hardware
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 20th November 2007, 08:31 PM
  3. dvd to hard drive.
    By callumtuckey in forum How do you do....it?
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 1st July 2007, 09:59 PM
  4. Best Hard Drive Manufacturer
    By nawbus in forum Hardware
    Replies: 35
    Last Post: 3rd April 2007, 09:06 AM

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •