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How do you do....it? Thread, Pupil input into ICT usage in Technical; Having been watching the ongoing online spat between Doug Belshaw and Arthus Erea for a while now I was wondering ...
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    KarlGoddard's Avatar
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    Pupil input into ICT usage

    Having been watching the ongoing online spat between Doug Belshaw and Arthus Erea for a while now I was wondering is there a place in a secondary school for input from pupils to the development / delivery / usage of ICT within the school.

    Do any of you have, for want of a better term, a Pupil ICT Forum ie a platform for pupils to discuss and provide feedback on issues regarding ICT in the school?

    I know schools have student councils etc and these, like Doug says, are primarily for informing purposes.

    But, I'm completely neutral / open to opinions on this. Is there a place for them to actually contribute constructively to the ICT provision in school?
    Last edited by KarlGoddard; 12th July 2008 at 09:07 PM. Reason: Spellling

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    russdev's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kgcs View Post
    Having been watching the ongoing online spat between Doug Belshaw and Arthus Erea for a while now I was wondering is there a place in a secondary school for input from pupils to the development / delivery / usage of ICT within teh school/

    Do any of you have, for want of a better term, a Pupil ICT Forum ie a platform for pupils to discuss and provide feedback on issues regarding ICT in the school?

    I know schools have student councils etc and these, like Doug says, are primarily for informing purposes.

    But, I'm completely neutral / open to opinions on this. Is there a place for them to actually contribute contsructively to the ICT provision in school?

    Might be an idea to link to some pages with this on going spat (but busy at moment to do it myself) so that other members (I know what you are talking about but other might not) can have bit of the history behind it all..

    As for the answer to your thread will but my view across later when got more time to post..

    Russ

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    GrumbleDook's Avatar
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    There are a number of problems with *any* form of student input into resources or the curriculum.

    First, the students involved have to be independent enough to understand and accept that ideas have to be workable, affordable and sustainable.

    Next, they have to also understand that if they want change they have to be able to explain the reasons why and what the difference would be.

    Finally, they have to also understand that although they may have the ideas, be able to explain it and what differences it will make, and be able to be involved in the changes ... they have to understand that they are not the people that will be held responsible and that *these* are the people that have to make the final choice in the end.

    Other than that, then yes ... students should get involved, if nothing else so they have a greater understanding of what goes on behind the scenes to get everything going.

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    russdev's Avatar
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    KarlGoddard's Avatar
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    beat me to it.... thanks Russ

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    SteveBentley's Avatar
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    Following comments from our student council, the powers that be decided that student PCs should be upgraded to Office 2007 for the forthcoming year.

    Which comprehensively screws up the summer of anybody who has to teach with it next year as they'll have to learn the new version and update all of the materials. But what the hell, it ticks the box for "we act on student's wishes".

    I have the student council minutes to hand ready for the returning students next year who will complain that they don't know how to use the new version...

    (My own views, not those of my employer - if it wasn't obvious!)

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    Sylv3r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveBentley View Post
    Following comments from our student council, the powers that be decided that student PCs should be upgraded to Office 2007 for the forthcoming year.

    Which comprehensively screws up the summer of anybody who has to teach with it next year as they'll have to learn the new version and update all of the materials. But what the hell, it ticks the box for "we act on student's wishes".

    I have the student council minutes to hand ready for the returning students next year who will complain that they don't know how to use the new version...

    (My own views, not those of my employer - if it wasn't obvious!)
    We have a student council here but a decision like that would never be made from the council and acted upon as easy as that.

    For example the sixth form mentioned lack of ICT facilities for them during their free time so we increased their study room to 20 PC's - which I felt was reasonable. A software request on the other hand....

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    SteveBentley's Avatar
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    I possibly should have added a clarification that I work in HE rather than a school. The Student Satisfaction Survey seems to carry a lot of weight these days!

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    StewartKnight's Avatar
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    In my opinion, the majority of student are far too immature to constructively discuss developments in the teaching and learning of ICT provided by the school.

    The example of using Office 2007 is an example. Why do they want 2007? Because it's the latest thing out. I doubt any of them could site a legitimate reason for wanting it.

    I think ICT is about teaching the concepts not the specifics. Therefore, so long as you understand the concept of say, mail merge, and can do it on the sepcific software that the school has, then thats fine. Understanding the conecpt of mail merge or forumlas in a spreadsheet is more important that simply being able to do it on one specific package.

    anyway... thats my 2 pence worth!

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    KarlGoddard's Avatar
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    The Office 2007 issue mentioned above is not, in any way, a fault of including pupils in a dialogue with staff. If rolling out Office 2007 was an operational concern for that organisation then that case should've been made by those responsible for IT within that organisation.

    I agree with Stewart regarding the 'maturity' aspect of the participants. We're talking about including children in a dialogue. We're not sitting them on a steering committee with full 'voting rights'.

    As Belshaw stated, quite rightly, in his blog post, children should be included for informing purposes only. I would never dream of bringing them on board to any forum / council / committee as stakeholders.

    I personally want pupils at my school to reflect their views of the ICT provision at my school to me - who knows I may learn something

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    Andrew_C's Avatar
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    Why should ICT be different from any other subject? Do we ask their views on what equipment the science labs are equipped with? Or the Home Ec rooms? Are they consulted on whether maths is taught in base ten or eight? (That'd stitch them up!)

    Nah, let them ask, but file the request in the bin unless it fits with a well thought out long term plan.

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    KarlGoddard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew_C View Post
    Why should ICT be different from any other subject? Do we ask their views on what equipment the science labs are equipped with? Or the Home Ec rooms? Are they consulted on whether maths is taught in base ten or eight? (That'd stitch them up!)

    Nah, let them ask, but file the request in the bin unless it fits with a well thought out long term plan.
    ICT shouldn't be treated any different from any other subject, it's just that ICT is what I'm employed to 'know about' within my school so that's what I'm concerned about.

    And, to be blunt, you're missing the point by some margin too.

    The idea isn't to get the pupils around the table and ask them what they want - that'd be quite stupid.

    And how the hell can a pupil have a "well thought out long term plan"? Half of the technicians I've worked with wouldn't know the difference between an operational and strategic plan, so expecting that from an 11-16 year old is ludicrous.

    Getting the pupils involved could work at various levels, as Tony mentioned above, even at it's simplest level it raises pupil awareness as to why things are done in a certain way with regards to ICT provision.
    Last edited by KarlGoddard; 17th July 2008 at 05:58 PM.

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