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How do you do....it? Thread, Device IP Allocation in Technical; Hey Everyone, Just thought I would try and get some input on a problem i have at the moment: (Most) ...
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    Device IP Allocation

    Hey Everyone,

    Just thought I would try and get some input on a problem i have at the moment:

    (Most) of our printers and older switches (Ones that I didn't install) are currently on an IP range of 192.168.x.xxx ranging from 100 to 300 and a subnet of 255.255.252.0

    Now I don't think this is correct. Firstly that subnet is not valid for that IP address range and I have also noticed some very strange things starting to happen now that I have turned STP (Kids know that broadcast storms break networks without it turned on now).

    Firstly our STP new managed switches are on our 'normal' IP range of
    172.xx.xx.xxx and a subnet of 255.255.252.0. I have set allocations for these in DHCP and from there I can see what devices has what IP. I have also noticed that the devices are quicker than he ones on the private subnet both in terms of say printing or loading up web interfaces in IE for management.

    I have run ethereal to see what the switches are doing in the way STP path resolution and there seems to be a couple of seconds if not more in terms of latency in resolution of private devices. Sometimes i also see complete failure in communication with the device VIA web interface.

    To my way of seeing it we don't actually have anywhere to see what device has what IP address. I have tried to explain that putting them on the same IP Address range and subnet will boost performance of these devices but I don't seem to be getting anywhere except 'It was installed by RM that way'

    Anyone got any thoughts/How you do it (All comments appreciated, Even if you are CC3 OR Vanilla) on this as I don't want to keep pushing it if I am not accurate, After all the people I am challenging on this could be right, And knowing my luck me be wrong.

    Barry

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    ChrisH's Avatar
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    Re: Device IP Allocation

    How are these devices routing between each range? They arent using another protocol like NETBEUI as from what you have said I dont see how everything is talking to each other.

    We have our county wan IP range assigned to us on a 10.x.x.x/24 most of us nat this and use a 192.168.x.x range I personally use 192.168.0.0/24 . All server switches APs etc are in the 192.168.0.x range and all the clients are in the 192.168.1.x range . I also split the 192.168.0.x range up so the IP is 192.168.0.101-110 I know its a device in cabinet 1 etc.

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    Re: Device IP Allocation

    Erm, Not sure i have fully explained myself. I have included a diagram to try and help explain.

    The traffic is just TCP/IP traffic, The switches are working out the route to take to the device. I can only call up the interfaces for these devices via the server with the second IP address setup on the NIC as i hope the diagram shows. The users can print because they print to the spool on the server which can communicate with the print device.

    Does this help explain?

    Barry
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Re: Device IP Allocation

    Ah right so they are going through the dual honed server. That makes sense how but not why The only reason I can think of is to force users to use the server rather than print direct which is a bit much.

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    Re: Device IP Allocation

    Is it possible your firewall/proxy box is acting as a router for the 192.168.3.0/22 traffic, routing it back onto the local network?

    This would cause a big overhead on the router/firewall/proxy box and would mean all traffic would be going across the switch it is connected to.

    I do have a couple of questions.

    Firstly, how come you are using a 22bit subnet mask? do you really need 1022 IPs in a single subnet?

    Secondly, on your diagram, you have a the proxy and a workstation with the same IP, is this a typo?

    You really need to move the "old" equipment across to the new range, running it like this is not good, and it is my belief the only reason it is working is because the proxy/firewall/router is performing routing back onto your network.

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    Re: Device IP Allocation

    If you tracert the printer from the client, whats the route?

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    Re: Device IP Allocation

    It looks to me that you have a switch plugged into your Internet router and any client on the 172.x.x.x range is going straight to the net rather than through your firewall/proxy.

    What you should do is re-configure everything so that it is in the range 192.168.x.x and ensure that the only device connected to the router is the second NIC in the firewall.

    Since you don't really know what is going on with the addresses of the managed switches anyway, it would be a good idea to reset them and document the new address.

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    Re: Device IP Allocation

    It's a perfectly reasonable scenario, I'd have added new printers & switches to the 192.168 range. To "see" them I'd add them into DNS same way I'd add any device with any static IP that doesn't do DDNS.

    STP is supposed to work at layer-2 (MAC Address). IP is layer-3 and should be irrelevent to STP.

    I can't quite decode what you mean by "latency in resolution".. is that figuring out what IP addresses go with the MACs? Or is it also trying to get DNS names?

    Whatever, I suspect the 'performance' issue only affects Ethereal.

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    Re: Device IP Allocation

    OK. Sorry i haven't posted on this recently (FR Died Monday and have been busy with RM trying to get the thing fixed)

    I don't think i have explained myself fully enough here. Firstly i should state that yes that is a typo in my diagram with the client IP and the proxy IP (I was very tired)

    Now let me try and give this another go.

    All of our Printers are on a 192.168.1.xxx (xxx being a number between 100 and 200) the subnet mask for this is 255.255.252.0. Now That subnet mask isn't valid according to what i know and also from double checking with the boson IPSubnetter tool it says that subnet mask is a class B mask (Also says supernetting)

    Our network IP address range comes from the LEA. We have no control over this. As without it we can't use the grid (The internet).

    The server has dual IP address configured on its NIC so that we can use it to manage the printers VIA web interface (You can't do this on any other machine except the server because the address isn't in the range of any of the clients hence the dual IP config on the server)

    Now surely it makes more sense to put our printers on our LEA assigned IP address range and set allocations in DHCP for them?

    That way we have a central point of seeing what device has which IP address.

    I have intermittent problems communicating via web interface with devices on the 192 range, I think this is a resolution problem (partly because the subnet is wrong)

    I don't have problems with devices that are on the LEA assigned 172.19.xx.xxx range.

    People can print and from that point of view its all good, Its just not being able to manage it VIA web browser (Almost like its timing out because the switch can't work out the route to the device) and that i have no central point of seeing what device has what IP (Because there are no reservations in DHCP)

    Thanks to all that are posting, I hope that makes a bit more sense. I am trying my best to articulate this one but its hard.

    Barry

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    Re: Device IP Allocation

    Im guessing here that you have trouble administering from clients but if you try from the server it's ok?..........

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    Re: Device IP Allocation

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisH
    Im guessing here that you have trouble administering from clients but if you try from the server it's ok?..........
    Spot On

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    Re: Device IP Allocation

    Thats because the server is the only one that sees that range. The server is not acting as a router it just has 2 IPs. The switch cannot go from a 172.x range to a 192.x range thats a routers job.
    If you tried to print directly to the print device from a client that would fail as well its been set up so all printing has to go through the server as there is no other path to it.

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    Re: Device IP Allocation

    Yup, This has been exactly my point, So i clearly have a valid point when i say that moving it to the public range is the most technically valid thing to do. Remember im looking to prove my point to management because they believe it has been done this way by RM on purpose and that it should stay this way.

    My point is i don't have any way of:

    A) Managing the devices from anything but the server
    B) See what device has what IP address as its not reserved anywhere / documented
    C) The subnet mask for that Class C address is not valid which is probs why the web interface is a bit hit and miss from the server i try to configure it on

    Im looking for people to back me up here really. Am i making more sense?

    Cheers,

    Barry

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    Re: Device IP Allocation

    Correct me if im wrong but the 172.x range is your IP range assigned to your school to connect you to your grid?

    Ps your points are very valid

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    Re: Device IP Allocation

    Thanks Chris, It is indeed

    Barry

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