Poll: Who does your network cabling?

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How do you do....it? Thread, Who does your network cabling?? in Technical; Have you Fluke tested it? With a contactor you can specify that they have to provide results and a guarantee. ...
  1. #16
    e_g_r's Avatar
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    Re: Who does your network cabling??

    Have you Fluke tested it? With a contactor you can specify that they have to provide results and a guarantee. We go for Molex 20 year.

    Do you follow all of the codes and practices for this?

    Years ago i would have done my own but haveing inherited what can only be described as a wireing abortion i would never do it myself again. instead i would get a professional acreditted company in, make them sign an agreement regards what they are doing, get full test results and then maybe get an independent test just in case they are cut and paste merchants.

    I used to do fibre but again if you get a contract signed and test results you will have a guarantee and something to fall back on.

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    Re: Who does your network cabling??

    In a previous employment I used to do a lot of installing and testing using the Fluke DSP tester. The easy bit is the running of the cables, as long as you have access to cable ducting/trays. Getting it to a test standard is easy if you know what you are doing. ( I Borrow the fluke from my ex boss )You can easily get pre-terminated fibre for straightforward runs. if the run is a little more difficult or the install is more than a few points we get contractors in.
    Costs can vary as can the standard of the finish. I once went to do a test of an install that other contractors had done and found many faults including runs of over 150m. One install we had to correct had rj45 plugs fitted to both ends, no network points, and the plugs were fitted to no standard. They were orange, orange white,blue, blue white, green, green white, brown and finally brown white. The networked sort of worked but the fails apart from wire map were near end and far end crosstalk. not surprisingly.

  3. #18
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    Re: Who does your network cabling??

    @Seacider - if that is the quality of your contractors' work, I don't blame you for doing as much as possible yourself! I hope you didn't pay for that installation?

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    Re: Who does your network cabling??

    Thats why we always make them sign a pre installation agreement that says they have to put right at their own cost anything that is done wrong.

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    Re: Who does your network cabling??

    As Jake said we do everything here, as for a 20 year guarantee whats the point, we will not be using the same cable in 20 years anyway, we probably won't be using the same in 10 years.

  6. #21
    e_g_r's Avatar
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    Re: Who does your network cabling??

    Whats the point?

    Even if its a couple of years down the line then you can get them in to change it. With the Molex if the contractor goes bust Molex will take on board the guarantee.

    How much industry standard training have you had? I used to think i was pretty good until i had real professionals in to do the work.

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    Disease's Avatar
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    Re: Who does your network cabling??

    Sounds to me like an excuse tbh, just my personal opinion though. How can you be in network management and not know how to cable properly and effectively, after all it's a basic task. In fact if you didn't know how to cable I would not even consider employing you to work for me.

  8. #23

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    Re: Who does your network cabling??

    Disease, network management isn't even slightly related to running cables. If I was expected to do cabling, I would see it is a poor use of my time and skills. Plus I don't have the relevant qualifications to ensure the high quality required - sure I am able to run cables, I am able to test them etc... but if things *do* go wrong, and it causes downtime in the school, it is my neck it is on, rather than an external company who have professionally trained engineers.

    I'm also quite happy with wiring electrical cables, and plumbing, but if I wouldn't do it - these are all areas where you need the guarantee.

  9. #24
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    Re: Who does your network cabling??

    Why would things go wrong, if you test and certify the cable, what is there to go wrong. It's different if you are by yourself then it's hard to devote the time to do it, but if there is more than 1 person in the team then time should not be an issue. We have a large network here with nearly 20 servers we find time to do ALL our own cabling, we have never had a failure and we have never had anything go wrong. In fact just this last summer we re-wired an IT room as it was wired incorrectly by a cabling company.

    If we required a guarantee for everything it would be a nightmare. What sort of Guarantee do you give the school that Active Directory will work fine, what sort of guarantee do you give that your backup solution will work fine. Thats the trouble with this country today, too many people try to find ways not to do something rather than just getting on and doing it.

    Next you will be telling me I should waste £2000 a time on a whiteboard and projector install with an outside contractor.

  10. #25
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    Re: Who does your network cabling??

    Disease

    How are you testing your cables? How do you source your parts. Cheapest? or looking at specs etc..

    Bit offensive saying you wouldn't employ me when you don't know me. If you had the report on the 10 years worth of cabling that i inherited it may current school it would make you think more about paying to get it done right and right first time.

    when you see a real proffesional do it with the twists right down to the module, the lack of compression and clean pull throughs then you might know what i am talking about.

    Hope you keep your cable runs away from power, water, gas and flourescent appliences. If you use basket tray i hope you also use liners as you will end up getting compression points in time if you havn't. Do you cable tie? another source of compression!

    do you lable your trays for data only so that in a years time an electrician won't think 'i'll run my cable along that'.

    Do you ensure that contractors are aware that they can't use your data runs and if so do you check this?

    I'm talking from bitter experience but could call you nieve.

    Hope your not doing the electrical work on your whiteboard installs? Or are you NIC EIC approved

  11. #26

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    Re: Who does your network cabling??

    Blimy, I only started this thread to gage whether other schools did any of their own cabling or not, wasn't expecing a full scale debate on the rights and wrongs of it all.

    Different school and managers do things in different ways, there's nothing wrong with getting contractors in if you can find a good one, but this was the problem we were having, hence the reason we've done this latest lot ourselves.

    I agree about the issues with garunteeing the work, but the work we've done is to a much higher standard than a lot of the other cabling work in this building, so we're happy with it. I can agree that the chances are we won't be using the same cabling in 20yrs time, so a 20yr garuntee is a little pointless IMO.

    No we havn't Fluke tested our installation, but again neither did any of the contractors we've used in the past. The only contractor we approached who offered this as part of their installation was priced way above what this school can afford.

    Mike.

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    Re: Who does your network cabling??

    That then is where we go wrong.

    A good example here is where the cat6 links were tested inependently last year and found to be all non complient!!!!

    Do you know the difference in running Cat5e and Cat6?

    If 10 years ago we had had a 20 year guarantee then we could have had it all replaced!!!! (Cat5 not the cat6)

    If you don't fluke test how do you know if your cable is running as it should?

    The Pro's Fluke - including keeping their flukes upto date and graduated.

    Your post shows how nieve we as NM's and Techies can be. In the past any body thought they could install data. Prime example is electritians being sub cintracted in new builds.

    When employing cablers make sure they know exactly what you expect and build in penalty clauses. Check what they are doing and make sure they see you doing this.

    If your infrastructure isn't right then you can have all the servers and stuff you want but your end user may not be getting the full benefit.

  13. #28
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    Re: Who does your network cabling??

    Quote Originally Posted by Disease
    as for a 20 year guarantee whats the point, we will not be using the same cable in 20 years anyway, we probably won't be using the same in 10 years.
    We're still using some cabling which dates back to the school's first installation so is now 19 years old...

  14. #29

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    Re: Who does your network cabling??

    In 2000/2001 i was imployed freelance with a couple of mates to install the start of the college network, around 200 points and 4 fibre runs. We did it for a lot less than any contractor quoted and still paid ourselves a healthy sum. Since then we have used 3 different contractors and would never go back to running cables myself. I will re-terminate the odd point but i am employeed to run the network, pc's and servers not crawl through lofts to lay cable.

    The first contractor we used was sh1t and we are still slowly replacing all the cabling they did(was before i started work here). Since i have used 2 contractors both local, we have only changed recently due to illness but both ACNetworks and DATALAN have done a brilliant job and are reasonable priced. Currently having one of our boarding house's re-cabled from the ground up would i want to do this no, could i do this yes as i did it orignally 7 years ago. But as i've said i'm network manager not cabling installer, whiteboard installer or electrical installer that is what contractors are for.

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    Re: Who does your network cabling??

    Disease

    How are you testing your cables? How do you source your parts. Cheapest? or looking at specs etc..

    We use a computerised Cable tester that gives and saves all informnation about the run.

    Bit offensive saying you wouldn't employ me when you don't know me. If you had the report on the 10 years worth of cabling that i inherited it may current school it would make you think more about paying to get it done right and right first time.

    It's not offensive, I just would not hire you if you could not cable, same as I would not hire you if you were not willing to use power tools.

    when you see a real proffesional do it with the twists right down to the module, the lack of compression and clean pull throughs then you might know what i am talking about.

    I know what you are talking about

    Hope you keep your cable runs away from power, water, gas and flourescent appliences. If you use basket tray i hope you also use liners as you will end up getting compression points in time if you havn't. Do you cable tie? another source of compression!

    Yes and no we don't cable tie

    do you lable your trays for data only so that in a years time an electrician won't think 'i'll run my cable along that'.

    Yes, I have a good relationship with the school electricians

    Do you ensure that contractors are aware that they can't use your data runs and if so do you check this?

    yes

    I'm talking from bitter experience but could call you nieve.

    How?

    Hope your not doing the electrical work on your whiteboard installs? Or are you NIC EIC approved

    It would be illegal for me to run anything other than an extension, we get an electrician in to feed power where we need it.

    The guarantee does not cover you if:

    Someone drills through the cables
    Vandalism to the cable
    Vandalism to the sockets

    As there are no moving parts is the reason why they are happy to give a 20 year guarantee as there is nothing that can go wrong. unless someone inteferes with the cable nothing will go wrong with it.

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