Otherwise, it means having more meetings and a lot of staff are loathed to sign themselves up to more of them. The head certainly wouldn't be interested in such a discussion, that's why he hires IT professionals to do the job.
Alternatives can be researched, and discussed obviously, but I don't agree there is ever this "perfect" harmony when every item requested can be given, and still kept to all the laws/security policies etc to ensure safe day to day running for students.
It's the fine balance of protecting everyone (including students, parents, teachers, data etc etc), and ensuring everyone has access to the software they want. There are always things that either "upset" someone, or break policies etc.
(And to me at least, this "functional" arguement seems to base around what happens when that occurs, Does the NM just go ok go ahead to keep teachers happy, or do they protect everyone and upset that teacher? Not saying one way is right, one is wrong, but to me the needs of many go over the needs of one.)
Last edited by Steve21; 12th August 2012 at 12:21 PM.
Even in places where this decision is left to the NM, someone higher up has made the choice to allow them that latitude and give them the funding to support it. It's then up to the IT managers how to achieve that objective.
Last edited by Roberto; 12th August 2012 at 06:22 PM.
It's so frustrating to get people who've worked a certain way and are determined to lift and shift that approach to their new place of work where they're given the autonomy to make those decisions. Harmony to me is achievable if folk are open to opening their ears and open to new ideas from others. I guess there is often a determination to do things in a certain way, where sometimes that determination isn't necessary or suitable given the environment. I've worked in environments where the majority of students immediate impulse isn't to download multi-GB unsuitable files to their home area, so in those environments why have hard quotas of piddly amounts of user storage ? There are countless other examples of square holes and round pegs that end up frustrating the user base, and have got very little to do with overall whole-organisation policy. Unless it is an organisation wide policy to make users less productive, which would be a first to be fair. And is totally unnecessary in a medium sized school.
@rdk - Oh, good, I was being used as the example of the evil lockdown wizard. I do find that funny as I generally run some of the least locked down school networks - that still work reliably - that I know of. My view point is heavily jaded by the few, generally most vocal and most self proclaimed 'technically skilled' users that break stuff so badly and with so little respect.
Here's the thing, teachers are not gods, they aren't! Now with that in mind lets put foward that the same loarding over, can't possibly understand mindset is exactly what you are wineing about and exactly what you are displaying. The end best end result is the best education for the students, this is not always helped by every teacher wandering off in their own direction doing their own thing as there are different qualities of teacher as in any job. Some of the are bad, don't deny it, they are. These are helpfully kept in their jobs by their unions preventing decent assessment of them. These are usually the ones claiming their superiority to everyone including any lowly pond scum that dares to inhabit a school without being a teacher and by extention load of the universe along with infallable. Guess what, everyone has jobs to do and some people are better at certain things hence why they get jobs in those areas. As a teacher you are generally presentation rather than implementation and may not take into account considerations that others might, such as your standard cavilere disregard for copywrite - another trait seemingly common with teachers. Your 'Apple is the answer' to every question viewpoint also probably ruffles a few feathers - mine included as many of the 'features' could also be seen as excuses for not having better solutions to start with.
My strategy has always been to 'lock down' the network and the servers, rather than the clients.
could you provide an html output of your windows client lockdowns? it would help others in this situation enormously.
How did I miss this fight
ITS NOT OUR/YOUR FFN JOB TO ACT AS JUDGE DREDDDo you report them for copyright infringement? No? In which case, your policy doesn't comply with the law in my view... It means that you aren't preventing your staff from breaking copyright on your school systems, which is as bad as facilitating it really.
Its basically a cop-out answer - 'we tell them off if they do bad things', but are you looking for them doing bad things? Trying to prevent them from doing them?
The cook doesn't monitor knife usage - she(sorry to be sexist) doesnt make sure they are not sharp - she hands them out for eating - we tell the pupils(and the teachers) not to stab each other with them and most days things go OK
When someone does stab with them - the wrath of god comes down upon them - this acts as a good example to the other pupils (and teachers) and a long gap occurs before it happens again.
Everyone knows not to mis-use the tools that they have been given
Maybe one day, somewhere, in some school, they might need knife monitors but in lots of schools in lots of places - the cook can get on with cooking and not worry about knive misuse
Attack ALWAYS Wins and spending tremedous time/effort on defence is normally only a reasonable value for money idea in a prison establishment
But hey - these discusssions always become religious and we should all live and let live - even if some of us are plonkers and are first in line come the revolution
PS For those new to Edugeek - I am a Dark Lord on the security front - I'm not on that team
Last edited by SimpleSi; 13th August 2012 at 03:23 AM.
CyberNerd (13th August 2012)
How many people here have such a line as the one I mention above in their job description?
(general response to the thread now) Forgetting the knives for the minute ... if we just take assault as a criminal offence. A fight breaks out and black eyes are exchanged, skins is broken, bleeding occurs ... even if it is just grazed knees, elbows and face as they roll round on the floor. This is now ABH. The children (depending on age) can be arrested and dealt with under the law. However, most schools and parents involved will happily deal with it within the school rules and not involve the police. The same goes for vandalism (criminal damage) and theft.
So it is hard to turn round and for any of us to say the the law has to be consistently applied when we routinely ignore it for the convenience and benefit of the school, the parents and the children.
When it comes to knives then yes, we do have to assess the risk of certain children having knives ... that could be the job of the class teacher, a member of SLT or the DT Tech / HLTA / LSA involved ... but based on an agreed process of assessment ... like any other form of risk assessment you see in schools (school trips, PE, etc).
It is rare that it is solely a technical responsibility to comply with the law ... if you take the DPA it talks about... so while we deal with the techie side there is another portion to be dealt with which can allow for compromise ... you relax the security, improve audit, improve training and set out clear boundaries. If the trust is abused then you come down hard on the individual and adapt what you do to deal with it.Appropriate technical and organisational measures shall be taken against unauthorised or unlawful processing of personal data and against accidental loss or destruction of, or damage to, personal data.
There is no black and white here ... risk assessment is grey ... and far more than 50 shades at that!
The fact that someone here has talked about a system that they have which works well, that isolates section of their network and controls who access what and where from, that fits into their school situation ... that doesn't make it perfect for everyone, but is still worth looking at. I've seen similar before with 1:1 schemes and even talked about similar possibilities in the days of the Data Protection work with Becta. A number of WiFi vendors who talk about segregation of networks to allow BYOD talk about it too ...
tmcd35 (13th August 2012)
Apologiesit turns out that you're wrong about the "your" part of the statement.
Can you provide a copy of the Judge Dredd section
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