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  1. #16


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    Quote Originally Posted by Effluo View Post
    I see you had specced 8GB's of RAM in your initial post and others are talking about upgrading that to 16GB!!!
    16GB is the new 8GB.

    Considering how cheap it is at the moment, I would definitely go with 16GB too. 8GB costs approx. £31-£35 for two 4GB DDR3-1333 DIMMs (P/N: KVR1333D3N9K2/8G).

    Kingston RAM is currently the best in terms of reliability.

  2. #17

    mac_shinobi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur View Post
    16GB is the new 8GB.

    Considering how cheap it is at the moment, I would definitely go with 16GB too. 8GB costs approx. £31-£35 for two 4GB DDR3-1333 DIMMs (P/N: KVR1333D3N9K2/8G).

    Kingston RAM is currently the best in terms of reliability.
    Totally agree - purchased a 16gb kit for my Mac Pro ( although they were FB DIMMS so obviously a lot more expensive ) but am agreeing with your 8gb is the new 16gb comment

  3. #18

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    Well still, the max I would recommend for a regular user who doesn't have a specific use like the op is 6GB and that is the most.

    My PC at home is used for all sorts of tasks with windows vista and never goes over 3.5GB of usage. And that's the memory hungry Vista, playing hardware intensive games xD

    There's no point in getting more than 6GB of RAM(cheap or not) unless you do have a specific need which will actually use it like the op.
    Last edited by Effluo; 19th August 2011 at 09:32 AM.

  4. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Effluo View Post
    Well still, the max I would recommend for a regular user who doesn't have a specific use like the op is 6GB and that is the most.

    My PC at home is used for all sorts of tasks with windows vista and never goes over 3.5GB of usage. And that's the memory hungry Vista, playing hardware intensive games xD

    There's no point in getting more than 6GB of RAM(cheap or not) unless you do have a specific need which will actually use it like the op.
    We have a 4GB minimum on all new PCs and thats just workstations. For virtualisation, HD video editing, 3d rendering, big image manipulation etc the extra RAM helps and if you have a decent OS (Vista or above) and no SSD the extra RAM can make the machine way more responcive if you use a bunch of heavy apps, even just one at a time. My little media NAS has 4GB of RAM for cache etc as it runs distributed computation apps that can benifit from more RAM and it also has some web services stuff on it. Add in a lifetime of several years and 8GB now is a reasonable minimum if you don't want to be upgrading it in a year.

    Are you using the 32bit version of Vista? That coule explain the 3.5GB maximum.

  5. #20

    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Effluo View Post
    I think the op knows all about the importance of good power supplies considering choosing an Antec Earthwatts in the original spec, it is very important to get a high efficiency and reliable PSU, but there's no point in getting more watts than you would ever need.

    corsair 400watt - Google Search

    This PSU is amazing value for what it is and will offer more than enough power for the ops machine
    AMD state that the 6750 card has a requirement of at least 450W. So, 450W for the card to be happy, then add in a bit more for the rest of the system and you soon hit 550W+

    Its just good practice to spec a larger PSU than absolutely necessary, that way you give yourself room to manoeuvre should you want to do something like Crossfire or add extra HDDs in the future.

  6. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by SYNACK View Post
    We have a 4GB minimum on all new PCs and thats just workstations. For virtualisation, HD video editing, 3d rendering, big image manipulation etc the extra RAM helps and if you have a decent OS (Vista or above) and no SSD the extra RAM can make the machine way more responcive if you use a bunch of heavy apps, even just one at a time. My little media NAS has 4GB of RAM for cache etc as it runs distributed computation apps that can benifit from more RAM and it also has some web services stuff on it. Add in a lifetime of several years and 8GB now is a reasonable minimum if you don't want to be upgrading it in a year.
    Again nearly all of those uses you talk about are still very specific. I'm talking about the general PC user, they would never need any of those things. Maybe the most commonly used thing you have mentioned(big image manipulation) more than likely wouldn't go over 3-3.5GB. Even then big image manipulation wouldn't be very common or a very oftenly used function of a PC by a regular user. Even 3GB on Windows 7 would be the perfect amount for 90%(guessimate) of people.

    The point on upgrading too - There's no such thing as future proofing PC's and if there are ever cases where future proofing is possible, it's usually only on adding an extra port which you may need in the future or something like that. Having more RAM that you won't be using now is not a good idea and would certainly be fruitless for most people.



    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    AMD state that the 6750 card has a requirement of at least 450W. So, 450W for the card to be happy, then add in a bit more for the rest of the system and you soon hit 550W+
    Its just good practice to spec a larger PSU than absolutely necessary, that way you give yourself room to manoeuvre should you want to do something like Crossfire or add extra HDDs in the future.
    facepalm.jpg

    Seriously, the biggest mistake that IT professional and Tech-noobs alike make when looking at computers, computer hardware or indeed any technical goods, is actually reading what's on the box written from the manufacturer... Nearly all of it is just marketing bull, although that's not why AMD tell you you need a 450+Watt PSU to run this card. They just about double the actual usage need for all their components to facilitate for the crappy PSU's on the market some of which only offer half of their stated power.

    Example:
    Sapphire Radeon HD 6770 1GB Vapor-X Video Card Review - Power Consumption Tests :: TweakTown USA Edition
    Here's a benchmark for the more powerful & slightly more power hungry 6770 GPU(presumed). The readings are for the total system power consumption, which has some rather power hungry components in it. So it's a pretty good idea of how much of a PSU would need whether adding in extra hard-drives or whatever. In this test system the max power consumed(full load) was only 263watts(188w Idle) which would be about 61% of the rated wattage of the PSU I recommended, right in the sweet spot of efficiency with lots and lots of power spare for more hard-drives

  7. #22

    mac_shinobi's Avatar
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    I normally get a Decent 600 Watt PSU that way I am covered for the graphics card, motherboard a few hard drives, couple of optical drives and some other bits although saying that the computer I have already has 1000 Watt PSU - not sure what make or how good it is but has lasted 3 years nearly so can't be that bad. Before everyone slates this post yes I have an early 2008 mac pro and yes I know how most swear at them and not by them

  8. #23

    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Effluo View Post
    facepalm.jpg

    Seriously, the biggest mistake that IT professional and Tech-noobs alike make when looking at computers, computer hardware or indeed any technical goods, is actually reading what's on the box written from the manufacturer... Nearly all of it is just marketing bull, although that's not why AMD tell you you need a 450+Watt PSU to run this card. They just about double the actual usage need for all their components to facilitate for the crappy PSU's on the market some of which only offer half of their stated power.

    Example:
    Sapphire Radeon HD 6770 1GB Vapor-X Video Card Review - Power Consumption Tests :: TweakTown USA Edition
    Here's a benchmark for the more powerful & slightly more power hungry 6770 GPU(presumed). The readings are for the total system power consumption, which has some rather power hungry components in it. So it's a pretty good idea of how much of a PSU would need whether adding in extra hard-drives or whatever. In this test system the max power consumed(full load) was only 263watts(188w Idle) which would be about 61% of the rated wattage of the PSU I recommended, right in the sweet spot of efficiency with lots and lots of power spare for more hard-drives
    Slight issue with your view there - say you face an issue with the card, and you are not following the minimum specs stated by the manufacturer. What will they say first? 'Lets work through a bunch of possible reasons, ignoring that you have not bothered to follow our advice in the first place'? or 'You need to get a better power supply, per the instructions on the box.'

    Just like if you use a compatible toner cartridge and then have an unrelated issue with your printer, no manufacturer will repair without trying to blame the compatible toner cartridge.

    So, regardless of what you think of the blurb put by the manufacturer, there are reasons to follow their advice.

    Plus, for the sake of future-proofing, and basically £20, why spec a small PSU?

  9. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    Slight issue with your view there - say you face an issue with the card, and you are not following the minimum specs stated by the manufacturer. What will they say first?
    wut?

    If you had an issue with the card, then it wouldn't be the PSU(unless it was a faulty part) in this prospective machine and the GPU manufacturers would know that. Although they put a rating on the box to stop people from buying a PSU which can't handle the system, they themselves are not ignorant to the power actually needed to run their components.

    Either way that's a pretty irrelevant argument considering if your GPU is dead, your GPU is dead. You RMA it and that's it.


    There's no way I'm going to get into a post battle with you, comparing a PC's PSU and a Printer's Toner and arguing that your warranty would be somehow invalid? Mate, really no offence, but you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

    On the point of buying a bigger PSU for a future build. Well that's not an altogether ridiculous idea, BUT what I would say is that pretty much the only people who would ever need to buy a PSU bigger than 400watt are people with a mad amount of hard-drives or gamers who have high powered GPU's(2GPU's or 1 very high end).
    If you don't see yourself as ever being either of those two types of user, then you simply won't need the extra power.
    What should also be noted is that PSU's efficiency is usually at it's highest when being used around it's mid range of power output. So it's actually better to buy the, "just right" amount of power with a reasonable overhead than to "overbuy" and then lose out when the electricity comes.

    P.S. The higher end ones will often contradict this and be of a very high efficiency through all power outputs.

    P.P.S.
    I don't claim to be an expert in computer building and buying, but I've got a huge interest in computer hardware and more specifically the computer hardware marketplace. I've helped spec up hundreds of PC's and conducted a study into the same. I'm no expert, but I know what I know
    Last edited by Effluo; 19th August 2011 at 07:44 PM. Reason: P.P.S.

  10. #25

    mac_shinobi's Avatar
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    just my £0.02 but

    1. if you buy a PSU of decent make and reasonable wattage ie I would say 500 or 600 watts ( I normally go for 600 )

    a. If you upgrade later on ie more hard drives, better graphics card or whatever then it will give you the extra wattage to do so
    b. If you do go with a 400 Watt one and your graphics card you have or get in the future or you want to buy extra hard drives and you require a PSU with more wattage then you have to ditch the current 400 W one and fork out more money for another higher rated wattage PSU hence future proofing

    Am not trying to argue just saying that I prefer to try and future proof to a degree where possible to give myself some room to do so without having to fork out further money which I could of done at the start by an extra £30 or so in the first place to give me a 600 watt vs a 400 watt psu

    Either way I have not built a PC for quite some time.

  11. #26

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    Tbh Mac_Shinobi, I didn't mean to debate with you at all. (I read your post but figured you wanted to be left alone with your 1Kw PSU )

    Either way, I'm not sure if you're aware but a hard-drive uses around 10watts... Considering that most computers on full load would use less than 240watts and less than 200 in idle... Well I don't know how many hard-drives you'd want, but there's still a lot of room left over.

    Regarding the GPU, though I said in my last post that it's very much up to the person and their use. Obviously you must be a gamer talking about switching and swapping GPU's, but as I said in the previous post...

    ...the only people who would ever need to buy a PSU bigger than 400watt are people with a mad amount of hard-drives or gamers who have high powered GPU's(2GPU's or 1 very high end).
    btw about your 1Kw PSU, I hope for your sake it cost you in excess of £100, because if it didn't I'd fear not only for the PSU, but for your whole PC. Cheap PSU's(relative to their wattage) lack some security features and their poor performance can actually put stress on components and even short your whole system :/
    You don't have to spend big money to get a good PSU, but you might have to spend big money cleaning up the mess a cheap PSU could leave you...

  12. #27

    mac_shinobi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Effluo View Post
    Tbh Mac_Shinobi, I didn't mean to debate with you at all. (I read your post but figured you wanted to be left alone with your 1Kw PSU )

    Either way, I'm not sure if you're aware but a hard-drive uses around 10watts... Considering that most computers on full load would use less than 240watts and less than 200 in idle... Well I don't know how many hard-drives you'd want, but there's still a lot of room left over.

    Regarding the GPU, though I said in my last post that it's very much up to the person and their use. Obviously you must be a gamer talking about switching and swapping GPU's, but as I said in the previous post...



    btw about your 1Kw PSU, I hope for your sake it cost you in excess of £100, because if it didn't I'd fear not only for the PSU, but for your whole PC. Cheap PSU's(relative to their wattage) lack some security features and their poor performance can actually put stress on components and even short your whole system :/
    You don't have to spend big money to get a good PSU, but you might have to spend big money cleaning up the mess a cheap PSU could leave you...
    Yes I am aware of aprox what each of the components use, I used to use this online calculator :

    eXtreme Power Supply Calculator

    along with motherboards.org and some other motherboard websites etc

    Early 2008 Apple Mac Pro is what I have and it has worked great and have also paid for apple care which covers everything so if it did go bang in a cloud of smoke it would be covered , also have contents insurance so again covered

    Ref the PSU thing - not trying to debate or anything but its like saying I want to use a 1.4 petrol engine to drive at 120 mph as that's near its max limit and it can handle it which is true but it's nearer or closer its maximum so will make the engine work a lot harder and will most likely kill it faster because its nearer its max limit or load all the time.

    I presume that the same would be true of a power supply , cpu, hard drive or otherwise hence why I said going for something a bit more then you need so when you do put it under strain its not anywhere near its threshold of what it can take and hence ( should last longer ). At least that's my view - could be wrong

    Am of the view of I'd much rather have it and not need it then need it and not have it

  13. #28

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    I'm not suggesting to anyone that they try to drive at 120mph in a 1.4litre Engine Car.
    Similarly it would be a bad idea to run a PSU or any machine at it's max load all the time(Unless it was designed for it of course).

    This is, however once again completely irrelevant to this case.
    I'm proposing a 430watt PSU for a PC which would have a need for around 260watts max...

    Alright?

    That's about 60-65% when in full load and completely acceptable.

    I really don't have the time to continuously repeat what I've said over and over again.

    ...

  14. #29

    mac_shinobi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Effluo View Post
    I'm not suggesting to anyone that they try to drive at 120mph in a 1.4litre Engine Car.
    Similarly it would be a bad idea to run a PSU or any machine at it's max load all the time(Unless it was designed for it of course).

    This is, however once again completely irrelevant to this case.
    I'm proposing a 430watt PSU for a PC which would have a need for around 260watts max...

    Alright?

    That's about 60-65% when in full load and completely acceptable.

    I really don't have the time to continuously repeat what I've said over and over again.

    ...
    I doubt that - using the calculator I posted above

    1 cpu, 2 sticks of RAM ( 2 * 4gb ), 2 usb devices ( keyboard and mouse ) , AMD II X6 1100T, 1 dvd drive, 1 regular sata hdd, ati 6790, 4 fans

    Total usage is 405 Watts so is pretty much 90% load, I'm with localzuk on this one and the gfx card suggested I think was the 6590 series card and that requires a lot more.

    Ditching the regular sata hdd to a flash ssd drops about 5 watts but still does not give much room for upgrades and also means its running at about 85 to 90% load with the specs the OP requested.

    Obviously you can adjust sticks of ram as required but original post stated

    AMD II X6 T1100
    ATI 69xx series card
    people have suggested either 8 or 16gb of ram ( Depending on money and requirements so adjust as needed )
    one SSD of choice and I presume at least one regular SATA HDD for storage as a lot of people would imo want somewhere safe to store data other then the SSD
    Optical drive for OS installation etc
    2 USB Devices for keyboard and mouse

    Had to pick the 6790 as that was the closest I could find in the list of graphics card to the 6590, 4 fans for cooling ( obviously again adjust as required )

    I have tried adjusting things to make it use the least amount and even then its still hitting around 390 ish so still quite high on a 430 watt PSU
    Last edited by mac_shinobi; 19th August 2011 at 11:14 PM.

  15. #30

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    Anyone in the know, knows that those calculators are rubbish.

    If you actually do a bit of googling and research yourself you'll find that out. There's no agreeing or disagreeing on how much power these components use, it's all there in writing from results conducted by experts if you go looking for it. It's not just someone talking bull on a forum it's fact.


    I don't mean to sound like an ass here, big headed or whatever, but I do know what I'm talking about. I've got quite a bit of experience and done a lot of research regarding computer hardware and specifically getting the best PC for your needs and budget.
    This thread is quickly disintegrating into some kind of post battle, which I can assure you I will not be partaking in. This is supposed to be about the op trying to get a new PC, it's not about who's right, who's actually providing solid background to what they're saying or who actually has experience doing this hundreds of times...

    You can choose to disagree all you like, that's fine, I'm not fussed, but it's ruining the thread and for the op's sake, it should be dropped.

    k

    o/

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