+ Post New Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 29
Hardware Thread, SAN advice in Technical; ...
  1. #1
    FatBoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Kent, UK
    Posts
    251
    Thank Post
    55
    Thanked 20 Times in 16 Posts
    Rep Power
    18

    SAN advice

    Hi Guys,

    I'm looking at getting a SAN but how do I know which is the correct/best SAN for me. It primary use will be to run my VMWare servers which I currently have running on the local HHDs of the server. I also want to use it via ISCSI I would imagine for the main file store for the school.

    I have various quotes etc so far from CORAID, HP and Overland but I don't 100% know what I'm looking at, what the features I should be looking out for or what the management software is like on the SANs.

    I know I need a SAN supports ISCSI unless I should be using another technology to connect to the san. Make sure it supports the various lvls of RAID? (But which should I use). The physical drives/power modules and network interfaces are hot swappable and redundant and that the network cards upgradable from 1GB to 10GB in the future also probably want 16TB in total – 8 usable

    Is there anything else I should be asking? Does anyone have any recommendations?

    Thanks
    FB

  2. #2

    RabbieBurns's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    5,527
    Thank Post
    1,339
    Thanked 470 Times in 307 Posts
    Blog Entries
    6
    Rep Power
    200
    we decided what our budget would be and what types of disks we wanted and how much storage and took it from there.

    we ended up with the Hitachi san with a mixture of SAS and 15000k SATA, connected via Fiber Channel rather than iSCSI

  3. Thanks to RabbieBurns from:

    FatBoy (13th May 2011)

  4. #3

    dhicks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Knightsbridge
    Posts
    5,656
    Thank Post
    1,262
    Thanked 783 Times in 680 Posts
    Rep Power
    236
    Quote Originally Posted by FatBoy View Post
    It primary use will be to run my VMWare servers which I currently have running on the local HHDs of the server. I also want to use it via ISCSI I would imagine for the main file store for the school.
    I still can't quite figure out why everyone is so obsessed with having their disk storage loosly coupled to their VM instances as if you're all running Amazon-scale datacentres, but if you're going to buy a SAN then the QNAP devices seem to be good value for money. Ours seems to be coping with being both an iSCISI target for Xen Server VMs and an SMB file server - you can at least save one lot of network traffic by having SMB traffic go straight to your storage server, rather than to a VM acting as a file server and from there to the storage server over iSCISI.

  5. 2 Thanks to dhicks:

    FatBoy (13th May 2011), zag (19th May 2011)

  6. #4
    Duke's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    1,017
    Thank Post
    300
    Thanked 174 Times in 160 Posts
    Rep Power
    57
    What kind of budget are you looking at? You're asking for some fairly high-end features there (10GbE, 16TB) so this won't be extremely cheap if you want to do it properly.

    NetApp, EMC, HP, and to some extent Dell are worth a look. My money goes to Oracle Sun S7000 though. iSCSI/NFS/CIFS all licensed for free, scales anywhere from 12TB up to several PB. 10GbE available and will take plenty of NICs. Network interfaces generally are never hot swappable - however you wire up your networking so they're redundant. The disks are SATA for capacity and Flash/SSD accelerated for performance, you can add however many you need based on your IOPS requirements.

    I've got an older S7410 with 22TB raw in RAID-DP with read/write SSDs serving up a couple of TB of data directly to Windows users over CIFS and running all my virtual machines over NFS or iSCSI.

    41 page thread on the (now older) S7x10 suff (it's up to S7x20 now) HERE.

    PM me if you want more details or supplier to contact.
    Last edited by Duke; 13th May 2011 at 12:49 PM.

  7. Thanks to Duke from:

    FatBoy (13th May 2011)

  8. #5

    plexer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Norfolk
    Posts
    13,258
    Thank Post
    671
    Thanked 1,644 Times in 1,466 Posts
    Rep Power
    424
    16TB in total – 8 usable
    What does that mean? you planning on just mirroring say 4 x 2TB on to 4 x 2TB drives?

    Ben

  9. #6
    Duke's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    1,017
    Thank Post
    300
    Thanked 174 Times in 160 Posts
    Rep Power
    57
    Quote Originally Posted by plexer View Post
    What does that mean? you planning on just mirroring say 4 x 2TB on to 4 x 2TB drives?
    I guess either a) Needs 8TB now but will scale to 16TB later, or b) 16TB works out to 8TB usable space.

    If the latter, my S7410's 22TB raw works out about 14TB usable after hotspares, RAID6 and formatting. My 6TB raw on the NetApp gives about 4TB usable.

    If the former, I would now only EVER buy storage that's expandable - ideally silently without having to destroy any storage pools or backup and restore my data. I've been bitten too many times by "oh, 20GB will be enough" ... "oh, 2TB will be enough" ... "oh, 6TB will be enough". I want to be able to plug in another disk tray as required and carry on working.

  10. #7
    FatBoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Kent, UK
    Posts
    251
    Thank Post
    55
    Thanked 20 Times in 16 Posts
    Rep Power
    18
    Not sure whether we are mirroring yet or not tbh and that was only a rough estimate, is mirroring over kill for a small school? I was thinking of just a RAID 5 or 6 setup or even 1. what's the general consensus on which RAID level you should use when it comes to speed?

  11. #8

    RabbieBurns's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    5,527
    Thank Post
    1,339
    Thanked 470 Times in 307 Posts
    Blog Entries
    6
    Rep Power
    200
    we have a whole bunch of different raid groups within our SAN depending on the type of disks and the purpose of the storage

  12. #9
    Duke's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    1,017
    Thank Post
    300
    Thanked 174 Times in 160 Posts
    Rep Power
    57
    Quote Originally Posted by RabbieBurns View Post
    we have a whole bunch of different raid groups within our SAN depending on the type of disks and the purpose of the storage
    +1 on that.

    For performance with some redundancy I guess you want RAID 10. When you say mirroring do you mean RAID 1 or do you mean two completely separate devices? The latter is nice, but only if your SLA requires it and your budgets can meet it.

    RAID 6 with SSDs/Flash seems to be working well for me, even for virtual machines. If I bought another disk tray or reconfigured my storage pool I might put some stuff on RAID 10 for performance.

    EDIT: RAID type should really be determined by your calculated IOPS requirements, then working out what your SAN would provide based on disk types/interfaces, spindles, then what RAID level you need. If you want RAID 5 for example, you may need to purchased larger quantities of faster disks to meet your requirements compared to what you might need if you went RAID 1.

    Chris
    Last edited by Duke; 13th May 2011 at 01:47 PM.

  13. Thanks to Duke from:

    FatBoy (16th May 2011)

  14. #10

    RabbieBurns's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    5,527
    Thank Post
    1,339
    Thanked 470 Times in 307 Posts
    Blog Entries
    6
    Rep Power
    200
    @Duke how much SSD storage do you have by the way.. im jealous already ;p

  15. #11
    Duke's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    1,017
    Thank Post
    300
    Thanked 174 Times in 160 Posts
    Rep Power
    57
    Quote Originally Posted by RabbieBurns View Post
    @Duke how much SSD storage do you have by the way.. im jealous already ;p
    Hehe.

    The Flash is purely used for acceleration and you don't get to choose what you put on there. The underlying OS works out what should be cached in there and the RAM (16GB RAM on mine, I think the minimum on the newer models is 24GB or 32GB) to give the best performance. Mine has got a 100GB read SSD in the head and two 18GB log SSDs in the disk tray.

    For those wondering prices, I can only give ballparks of my own experience:

    We needed to expand our storage to meet growing user requirements and our need for centralised VM storage. We already had a NetApp box so they quoted to expand our solution to meet new requirements and came in at £120,000. Sun (via Cutter Project) came in with a larger and faster solution in the S7410 for £37,500.

    In the new 7x20 models, 12TB would start at around £17k list, but be considerably less after educational discounts (PM me if you need to know who to talk to in order to get these prices). 24TB should be under £20,000 after everything has been included. Bear in mind these prices include all protocols and all OS/firmware upgrades forever. You're not going to suddenly get hit with a £10,000 bill if you need to add an NFS licence, unlike some providers.

    Chris

  16. Thanks to Duke from:

    bossman (13th May 2011)

  17. #12

    RabbieBurns's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    5,527
    Thank Post
    1,339
    Thanked 470 Times in 307 Posts
    Blog Entries
    6
    Rep Power
    200
    Thats for the storage only? I take it you already had the VM Host servers?

  18. #13
    Duke's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    1,017
    Thank Post
    300
    Thanked 174 Times in 160 Posts
    Rep Power
    57
    Quote Originally Posted by RabbieBurns View Post
    Thats for the storage only? I take it you already had the VM Host servers?
    Yep, that's purely storage, virtualisation ended up being a completely separate project.

  19. #14

    glennda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Sussex
    Posts
    7,817
    Thank Post
    272
    Thanked 1,138 Times in 1,034 Posts
    Rep Power
    350
    I'm currently running an MSA 2000 Fiber channel san with dual controllers and an HP fiber switch and it hangs off the back of 3 HP dl380's with 64gb in 2 and 16gb in the other

    But as others have mentioed something that is expandable is needed.

    I'm just getting quotes in for the HP Storage Enclosure bolt on which will double the amount of storage we have.

    They currently have 12 x 450gb 15k Sas drives in.

  20. #15
    FatBoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Kent, UK
    Posts
    251
    Thank Post
    55
    Thanked 20 Times in 16 Posts
    Rep Power
    18
    I have been quoted for a Coraid SRX2800-G SAN
    Six 1GigE Ports
    36 disk bays for 3.5" SATA, SAS or SSD drives
    with 16 coraid 1TB 7.2 SATA HDDs installed
    with 3 years support + maintenance
    for about £12,000

    The AoE (ATA over Ethernet) protocol the Coraid SAN uses looks impressive compared to iSCSI or Fibre channel.

    Does anyone have an opinion on Coraid stuff or what I posted above?
    Thanks

SHARE:
+ Post New Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. SAN Advice
    By lafleur1977 in forum Hardware
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 18th April 2011, 09:00 AM
  2. SAN Advice
    By sidewinder in forum Hardware
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 18th May 2010, 02:10 PM
  3. CV advice, and general Job searching advice
    By mossj in forum Educational IT Jobs
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 14th May 2009, 09:32 PM
  4. Getting a SAN need advice
    By ICTNUT in forum Wireless Networks
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 24th May 2008, 12:21 AM
  5. san advice
    By Chris in forum Wireless Networks
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 13th May 2008, 03:20 PM

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •