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Hardware Thread, SAN Solution in Technical; Originally Posted by SYNACK Not really then you just have auth overkill as the nas goes nuts hitting the servers ...
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    teejay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SYNACK View Post
    Not really then you just have auth overkill as the nas goes nuts hitting the servers for kerberos and you loose out on some of the features like windows file screening and shadow copies.
    Unless your file server is also a domain controller you'll get the authentication traffic anyway and I would certainly never run my main file shares on a dc on any large network. Also, the latency on the ip stack on NAS boxes is generally much lower than windows file servers.
    Shadow copy is fully supported by nearly all decent NAS devices, file screening by some, dfs is supported. You also get extra features like de-dupe, access based enumeration, ssd caching.

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    SYNACK (31st January 2011)

  3. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by teejay View Post
    Unless your file server is also a domain controller you'll get the authentication traffic anyway and I would certainly never run my main file shares on a dc on any large network. Also, the latency on the ip stack on NAS boxes is generally much lower than windows file servers.
    Shadow copy is fully supported by nearly all decent NAS devices, file screening by some, dfs is supported. You also get extra features like de-dupe, access based enumeration, ssd caching.
    You learn something every day, NASs have definitly improved then from the dirty hacks that some of them were.

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    teejay (31st January 2011)

  5. #48

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    Oh there are still plenty of dirty hack NAS boxes available

    Our Oracle 7310 just sits there and works very, very nicely.
    Shadow copies - keep a whole months worth on there from the end of every lesson, plus 1 per day for a year and never fails. No more 'oh the servers randomly decided to delete all the shadow copies' which we had on server 2003.
    No more disk space issues or doing complicated stuff with DFS to manage shares across 7+ file servers.
    No more windows update fun on it, just one update about every 3-6 months, which is generally to add shiny new features (features which some other NAS providers are charging a fortune in licensing for).
    I have to say, it's top of the list in pieces of kit that have reduced my stress levels and workload, including virtualising most of our servers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by teejay View Post
    Our Oracle 7310 just sits there and works very, very nicely. [...] (features which some other NAS providers are charging a fortune in licensing for).
    Our 7410 hasn't been faultless (nothing is to be fair), but it's still one of the best bits of kit I've ever seen, particularly in this price range and with the feature set. CHiLL, watch out for the bit in bold above if you do look elsewhere, there are few vendors who will genuinely give you all the licensing at no additional cost like Oracle do with the S7000. £10k for NFS isn't a joke.

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    Yeah, not 'entirely' faultless, but in comparison to our old Windows file servers it is in a different ball park.

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    +1 on using a SAN/NAS unified system for file sharing. We've got a 7110 and an EMC Celerra NS-480 and both are great at file sharing, with full shadow copy support

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    +1 for iSCSI

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    I've been talking to an Oracle rep on the phone. Going to get a call back at some point to go over our situation in more detail. I'll also ring around a few other companies too, to try and get a ballpark figure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CHiLL View Post
    I've been talking to an Oracle rep on the phone. Going to get a call back at some point to go over our situation in more detail. I'll also ring around a few other companies too, to try and get a ballpark figure.
    Drop me a line if you need pricing. Can push for some extra discount.

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    Cant get more educational discount than linescanner can get!! What a man!

    Mind you it does look like Oracle are a fair bit tighter to Edu than Sun were?

    Butuz

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    linescanner (3rd February 2011)

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    Just been searching around old threads for SAN recommendations, having read some of the posts so far here's what I've looked at...

    - NetApp... some nice features but pricey and slow core CPU (FAS2020)
    - Oracle \ Sun... loved on here but might be a bit pricey for us and what we need?
    - Hitachi... recommended to this recently, might do the job?
    - Dothill... I see it around the same as Hitachi, maybe slightly more basic OEM type kit?
    - IBM S7000... an interesting device that seems to be aimed at SMB deployments but very new and perhaps a bit unproven as yet
    - HP Lefthand P4000... decent spec and might get good bid pricing but depends how it stacks up to the others
    - Dell Equalogic... we don't really deal with Dell kit and being in the same price range as HP we'd stick with HP
    - EMC... pricey!

    We don't need bundles of storage, probably 2-3Tb would be plenty, I'm thinking a mix of SAS for the VMs and SATA for file shares, images etc? With shares I was thinking of either putting them on a unified storage SAN but if that means we have to go to an expensive model then I was looking at using two Server 2008 VMs clustered doing the file shares.

    With servers for our virtualisation project I'm looking at 20-25k for the lot so the SAN is 10-15k of that based on the 3 x HP DL380s with 32GB RAM coming in at somewhere between 10-12k. I'm also allowing 1.5k for two decent ProCurves (2910s?) for the iSCSI SAN.

    I'm not too worried about replication features as it stands as we only have the one site, although would be nice to have it there for the future. Paranoia says RAID6 to me for the file storage, dual controllers is a must etc. Also prefer options where we can add extra trays of disks as we go but not at massive cost (reading the NetApp experiences is another reason to be put off there!) Thin provisioning would be nice

    Does that sound realistic (or indeed in reality could it come out cheaper, that would be a result!) and which of the above comes recommended in that price bracket?
    Last edited by gshaw; 3rd February 2011 at 04:18 PM.

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    @gshaw
    How many users and how many client computers do you have? How many servers are you looking at virtualising and what sort of things are they doing?

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    I'm still gonna recommend the S7000 stuff, but at 2-3TB you're really looking at the old 7110 which I don't think is available any more, you'd have to get the 7120. I think you can get the 7120 with just disks in the head - no disk trays - but still add disk trays at a later date if you wanted. Have you got a quote from Andy at Cutter (or WTL) for a 7120 in the size you need to compare the costs?

    I've got 3x Dell R710s with 48GB RAM quoted at about £10.4k so your DL380 figures sound right. We don't use HP switches so not sure about those costs.

    I think it all depends on your long-term plan, that's how we're selling it to management here. Everything needs to be expandable and upgradable at a later date, no point me buying things like the VMware Essentials bundle (which is great value for money) if I'm later going to want more than 3 VMware hosts and I'll have to re-buy all my licences because it's not expandable. If you're going for one of the cheaper SAN/NAS options then get something that will scale well. The FAS2020 will take extra disk shelves but with the Celeron it runs it's not worth it (I've got one!).

    What's the HP SAN got in the way of features? Disk types (SSD/Flash accelerators, or does it use 15k SAS drives for speed?), what's the software stack on it like (particularly protocol-wise)? If you're HP already it might be a good option.

    Chris

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    Quote Originally Posted by teejay View Post
    @gshaw
    How many users and how many client computers do you have? How many servers are you looking at virtualising and what sort of things are they doing?
    300 PCs
    About the same amount of users in the building on PCs at any time (some staff using OWA and in the future TS RemoteApp etc)

    Currently 15 servers over 2 networks being consolidated to a single network with VLANs over summer. DC \ DHCP \ DNS \ SCCM \ SQL 2005 (for MIS) \ WSS 3.0 \ Exchange 2007 (might upgrade to 2010) \ print servers plus probably a few new VMs for minor applications e.g. ID card system and so on. File server is currently a Windows Storage Server but I'm not having shares on a single Windows box again, if it stays Windows it will be clustered to avoid host OS issues.

    The other option is this...

    http://www.intelmodularserver.com/

    Switches won't be a problem, about 800ish for 2910s if I'm right although that should drop a bit with educational bid pricing

    The virtualisation software is still up for debate, VMWare is my gut instinct but Hyper-V R2 + DPM 2010 saves enough on licensing to get the Ruckus wireless kit I've been after for the last year or so. What I worry is that it will come at a cost, that being the cost of me tearing hair out if Windows has a wobbly and doesn't fail over correctly.

    The only reason I haven't already gone to Cutter is that I have a feeling they won't be on our Borough approved suppliers list, if anyone from the company sees this give me a PM to check...
    Last edited by gshaw; 3rd February 2011 at 04:45 PM.

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    Switches won't be a problem, about 800ish for 2910s if I'm right although that should drop a bit with educational bid pricing
    10/100 Switches fro £800. Cisco really live in the 1990's don't they. Personally i wouldn't go anywhere near Cisco kit these days. I'll bet net-Ctlr would give better pricing on Juniper kit!

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