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Hardware Thread, New Projector in Technical; Originally Posted by Jobos So how much noise do these projectors make compared to a standard projector? IMHO not alot ...
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    glennda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jobos View Post
    So how much noise do these projectors make compared to a standard projector?
    IMHO not alot - but i don't have one on next to me all day - they are a lot quieter then normal ones. plus if they are louder the cost savings outway any slight increase in noise

    Toby

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    camel's Avatar
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    The Casio XJ-A135 is the model we have, with the 3 energy(eco) settings. Standard mode dB level is not quoted in the specs on Casio's website, only the 2 eco modes (1 @ 35dB and 2 @ 29dB). In standard mode the noise is distracting, being reasonably close to that of the cooling down period of a Sanyo projector. Noise and image brightness are greatly reduced on eco2. Though no specific quotation on the noise level, it was a letdown in a PC Pro review of the XJ-A135.

    In addition to noise, the cost of these projectors is substantially higher than its competition with the basic model (XJ-A130) being £620+ Ex VAT and the XJ-A135 at £690+. A roughly equivalent lamp based model (Benq MP626) would be about £460+ Ex VAT including a spare lamp, 3 years de/install warranty (combined lamp life ~6000-8000hrs).

    Also energy consumption, basic like for like, of the above mentioned projectors;
    • Casio XJ-A135 or A130 in standard mode is 270W, eco1 190W and eco2 130W, stand-by <1W
    • Benq MP626 in normal mode is 230W, unknown for eco, stand-by <1W


    I’m not yet convinced into purchasing the Casio LED/Laser projectors, though the technology is getting much better and certainly worth keeping an eye on them in the future.

    I am hoping Apple develop the IWB equivalent of the iPad, the “iWall”. Well it would eliminate the whole point of a workstation/laptop needed to run the IWB with sync/control from any apple iOS device... network managed of course... would make my day!

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    Quote Originally Posted by camel View Post
    I am hoping Apple develop the IWB equivalent of the iPad, the “iWall”. Well it would eliminate the whole point of a workstation/laptop needed to run the IWB with sync/control from any apple iOS device... network managed of course... would make my day!
    Until one of the teachers tried to show a Flash website to the class. Lol

  4. Thanks to Bezwick from:

    SimpleSi (8th November 2010)

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    camel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bezwick View Post
    Until one of the teachers tried to show a Flash website to the class. Lol
    Lol, that's true enough. OS X based iWall it is then!

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    SimpleSi's Avatar
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    Replacement lamps at around £85 - £95
    Just be aware that some manufacturers have been know to quote a low replacement price for bulbs for new projector models but 3 years down the road when you come to actually buy one, you find the price has gone up by far more than inflation


    regards

    Simon

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    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by camel View Post
    The Casio XJ-A135 is the model we have, with the 3 energy(eco) settings. Standard mode dB level is not quoted in the specs on Casio's website, only the 2 eco modes (1 @ 35dB and 2 @ 29dB). In standard mode the noise is distracting, being reasonably close to that of the cooling down period of a Sanyo projector. Noise and image brightness are greatly reduced on eco2. Though no specific quotation on the noise level, it was a letdown in a PC Pro review of the XJ-A135.
    Odd. We don't use the eco mode here, and I've had zero complaints from the 2 rooms where we have these.

    In addition to noise, the cost of these projectors is substantially higher than its competition with the basic model (XJ-A130) being £620+ Ex VAT and the XJ-A135 at £690+. A roughly equivalent lamp based model (Benq MP626) would be about £460+ Ex VAT including a spare lamp, 3 years de/install warranty (combined lamp life ~6000-8000hrs).
    Not a fair comparison. The Casio has a lamp life of 20,000 hours. Adding the additional lamps to cover this for the BenQ would be another £680! (Their rated life is 3000 hours so seems only fair to compare like for like). So, the XJA130 comes in at £620, and the BenQ comes in at £1040 over the 20k lifespan... That's nearly double.

    Also, take into account the lower maintenance needs of DLP projectors (no need to go cleaning filters) and you are making another saving there.

    Also energy consumption, basic like for like, of the above mentioned projectors;
    • Casio XJ-A135 or A130 in standard mode is 270W, eco1 190W and eco2 130W, stand-by <1W
    • Benq MP626 in normal mode is 230W, unknown for eco, stand-by <1W
    So effectively, there is very little between them?

    I’m not yet convinced into purchasing the Casio LED/Laser projectors, though the technology is getting much better and certainly worth keeping an eye on them in the future.
    What would convince you, if them being half the TCO of a normal projector, being a drop in replacement for most projectors (as they have an adjustable focal length), lower maintenance, instant on/off, USB pen drive support etc...?

    I am hoping Apple develop the IWB equivalent of the iPad, the “iWall”. Well it would eliminate the whole point of a workstation/laptop needed to run the IWB with sync/control from any apple iOS device... network managed of course... would make my day!
    Sounds hideous and limiting!!

  8. #22

    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by camel View Post
    We have recently had a casio led projector but the thing is so noisy. Much more so than the filterless projectors we have.
    At my school, I've been looking into Benq MP515 and MP626 £300 - £350 with 2500/2700 lumins respectively. Replacement lamps at around £85 - £95. This isn't bad when I was quoted a replacement lamp for a Saraha projector (Very old) at £350! No surprises to what happened when I got that quote.
    Replacement lamps for the MP626 are definitely not around £85 - £95! The supplier we usually use, who 99% of the time wipe the floor compared to other suppliers, have them as £117 each. Standard market rate seems around £130.

  9. #23
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    The casios are fantastic, weve got about 35 of them now, and we have even replaced the theatre projector with one whilst is being repaired and itworking fantastic. they are not noisey when in eco 1 or 2 but the fans are louder when eco is off, but you shouldnt ever need it off to be honest as theyre bright enough as it is.

    Awesomeness

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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    Not a fair comparison. The Casio has a lamp life of 20,000 hours. Adding the additional lamps to cover this for the BenQ would be another £680! (Their rated life is 3000 hours so seems only fair to compare like for like). So, the XJA130 comes in at £620, and the BenQ comes in at £1040 over the 20k lifespan... That's nearly double.
    Sorry, my like for like was wrong, I should of used the equivalent Casio model that does come close to the spec of the Benq. Equivalent model is the Casio XJ-A145 ~£774+ which is 2500 lumins, has network connectivity but a 1800:1 contrast ratio. Where as the Benq MP626 is 2700 lumins and 3000:1 contrast, has network connectivity for remote management.

    Casio are guaranteeing the XJ-Axxx lamps and units for 3 years or 6000 hours (whichever is first) it is very different from the 20,000 hrs lamp life they advertise, which is rightly based on the LED/Laser technology only, not the unit. My comparison is based on their guarantees not their potential. Technology, at its current pace of change, would have moved on in 20,000 hrs (close to 15-18 years in edu terms). You may be replacing them well before their 20,000 hrs are up.

    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    Also, take into account the lower maintenance needs of DLP projectors (no need to go cleaning filters) and you are making another saving there.
    DLP projection systems are not limited to LED/Laser based projectors, as the specs for the Benq show that it also has a DLP projection system with no filters to clean making it as low maintenance, with the network capability it is possible to monitor usage and set scheduled off times. It has Instant On/Off, as fast as the Casio. Though the Benq is larger and slightly heavier, this is where the Casio has the advantage as a portable projector. Though another reason I'm looking at the Benq is for ceiling mount anyway, not for carrying them around the country.

    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    Replacement lamps for the MP626 are definitely not around £85 - £95! The supplier we usually use, who 99% of the time wipe the floor compared to other suppliers, have them as £117 each. Standard market rate seems around £130.
    As for lamp prices, I'm quoting ex VAT from a supplier who, as of today (09/11/2010) are selling the Benq MP626 replacement lamp for £91.34. The £85-£95 quote was taken out of context where £85 was for the Benq MP515 and the £95 was for the Benq MP626, at time of writing.

    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    What would convince you, if them being half the TCO of a normal projector, being a drop in replacement for most projectors (as they have an adjustable focal length), lower maintenance, instant on/off, USB pen drive support etc...?
    Spec wise, the Casios are very good projectors, it is the initial upfront cost that seems high for the features. The TCO on 6000-8000 hrs (about 5-6 years edu terms) the Benq comes out very strong, in my opinion (Benq @ ~£460, Casio @ ~£770), based on the specs and prices of both machines. I'm not sure how many people will be plugging in USB sticks while the projector is mounted on the ceiling? The zoom and lens are excellent on the Casio, as you say a "drop in replacement".

    With a proper rolling replacement/maintenance program of 5-6 years, projectors should be replaced or at least have procedures in place. The Casio's lamp potentially could keep going for 20,000 hrs (3yrs or 6000hrs guaranteed) and that is the major selling point for them. But what about the unit itself, with it out of guarantee and a the lamp failing after 3 years, there is no possibility of replacing the lamp as it is specifically aligned and built-in to each unit, thus you would need to replace an entire projector, again.

    Just a few of the pros/cons for both projectors (types and models). I would be happy to see the Casios installed in 2010 working in schools/businesses in 10-15 years though, as technology matures I believe that it may take a different approach than projectors for displays/IWBs.

  11. #25

    localzuk's Avatar
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    Casio are guaranteeing the XJ-Axxx lamps and units for 3 years or 6000 hours (whichever is first) it is very different from the 20,000 hrs lamp life they advertise, which is rightly based on the LED/Laser technology only, not the unit. My comparison is based on their guarantees not their potential. Technology, at its current pace of change, would have moved on in 20,000 hrs (close to 15-18 years in edu terms). You may be replacing them well before their 20,000 hrs are up.
    No, Casio are providing a 10,000 hour or 5 year warranty for education. And replacing projectors before their death? Not here we don't! No way, no how.

    Spec wise, the Casios are very good projectors, it is the initial upfront cost that seems high for the features. The TCO on 6000-8000 hrs (about 5-6 years edu terms) the Benq comes out very strong, in my opinion (Benq @ ~£460, Casio @ ~£770), based on the specs and prices of both machines. I'm not sure how many people will be plugging in USB sticks while the projector is mounted on the ceiling? The zoom and lens are excellent on the Casio, as you say a "drop in replacement".
    Most projector looms can have a USB cable included - most of ours are less than 5m from the pole, and if they are more than that we can put in an active USB cable, meaning the USB can be used from the board.

    And again, you are under-quoting the lamp hours. Most of our LCD projectors in school here are around 5 - 7 years old now. I don't imagine we'll be replacing them for another couple of years either. We certainly get more than 6k hours out of them!

    With a proper rolling replacement/maintenance program of 5-6 years, projectors should be replaced or at least have procedures in place. The Casio's lamp potentially could keep going for 20,000 hrs (3yrs or 6000hrs guaranteed) and that is the major selling point for them. But what about the unit itself, with it out of guarantee and a the lamp failing after 3 years, there is no possibility of replacing the lamp as it is specifically aligned and built-in to each unit, thus you would need to replace an entire projector, again.
    Why would you replace a working projector? And see above for the warranty issue - it still works out cheaper with the Casio's.

  12. #26
    camel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    No, Casio are providing a 10,000 hour or 5 year warranty for education. And replacing projectors before their death? Not here we don't! No way, no how.
    Not even when the cost of the replacement lamp is more than the cost of a new projector? Yes the casio would negate that fact.

    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    Most projector looms can have a USB cable included - most of ours are less than 5m from the pole, and if they are more than that we can put in an active USB cable, meaning the USB can be used from the board.
    You say most (yours?), but the ones I've inhereted do not and would require replacing the looms or adding the extra cables. Need to do that anyway as some of the IWB placements & looms are laughable.

    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    And again, you are under-quoting the lamp hours. Most of our LCD projectors in school here are around 5 - 7 years old now. I don't imagine we'll be replacing them for another couple of years either. We certainly get more than 6k hours out of them!
    Again, back to the cost of the lamps and also maintenance, after several years their costs do go up, and yes we would certainly try to get 5-7 years out of them. But lamp costs being the prohibitaing factor, plus the costs of maintaining LCD projectors should be taken into account too. I would expect at least 2 maintenance cleans in 5-7 years and they're not cheap. Could be done inhouse?

    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    Why would you replace a working projector? And see above for the warranty issue - it still works out cheaper with the Casio's.
    That is a fair point, the 5yr lamp warranty certainly sells it. Though again, it comes down to the expense of a lamp or the expense of a projector when out of warranty on either part, which is a decision of the person planning, buying and then managing the equipment.

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    SimpleSi's Avatar
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    I think we could do with a 3d spreadsheet for all this

    But I'd just like to clarify - we are getting a 5year guarantee in education with the Casios - aren't we?

    And just another point - I had to send a Casio back recently and Mr Casio in the UK is def not up to speed in this respect and wanted signed notes from my Granny (and the original box!) whereas I reported a fault on a projector to Mr Epson on Thurs and under their 3 year warranty, he popped in Friday and replaced the projector without any effort from me

    That sort of service is worth a lot to me/school (downtime 24 hours compared to 2 weeks for Casio) and next time I need a new projector I'm going to think a bit more carefully about it and not just jump and get a Casio.

    regards

    Simon

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    Quote Originally Posted by SimpleSi View Post
    I think we could do with a 3d spreadsheet for all this
    But I'd just like to clarify - we are getting a 5year guarantee in education with the Casios - aren't we?
    Lol, As far as I'm aware, the 5 years applies to the lamp source only, the unit is still 3 years, but that is pretty good going as most other units are 3 years anyway. You make an interesting point on the level of service though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kevbaz View Post
    The casios are fantastic, weve got about 35 of them now, and we have even replaced the theatre projector with one whilst is being repaired and itworking fantastic. they are not noisey when in eco 1 or 2 but the fans are louder when eco is off, but you shouldnt ever need it off to be honest as theyre bright enough as it is.

    Awesomeness
    I agree, we've just had 18 XJ-A140 projectors installed, and a XJ-A150 to be installed next week.

    They are great...staff can use the IWB AND have the curtains open!

  16. #30

    john's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by camel View Post
    Lol, As far as I'm aware, the 5 years applies to the lamp source only, the unit is still 3 years, but that is pretty good going as most other units are 3 years anyway. You make an interesting point on the level of service though.
    I thought if you bought the Edu version of the Casio it was 5 years on-site swap out warranty you got with them, if you buy the commercial one you get lesser warranty.

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