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Hardware Thread, Sun ZFS Storage Appliance in Technical; Lol... Anyway, to bring this back on track: 1) Is anyone buying a 7720 and if so can I come ...
  1. #16
    Duke's Avatar
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    Lol...

    Anyway, to bring this back on track:

    1) Is anyone buying a 7720 and if so can I come and work for them?

    2) How do people feel the competition mounts up against the new 7x20 stuff? As far as I'm concerned, the big plus is still the Fishworks OS which beats anything else I've seen from a usability and management point of view (although I still want my user quotas done properly). Soulfish - how have found the EMC kit in comparison?

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    Quote Originally Posted by john View Post
    Oh dear are you a naughty boy!!
    so you see what happens John when you step out of line? Chris, apologies for confusing you with John.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Duke View Post
    Lol...

    Anyway, to bring this back on track:

    1) Is anyone buying a 7720 and if so can I come and work for them?

    2) How do people feel the competition mounts up against the new 7x20 stuff? As far as I'm concerned, the big plus is still the Fishworks OS which beats anything else I've seen from a usability and management point of view (although I still want my user quotas done properly). Soulfish - how have found the EMC kit in comparison?

    Well they've been willing to give us the earth to get our business (I have a stack of 200gb SSDs next to me that I need to install ), but it's certainly not the most straightforward system in the world! Doesn't help that from my understanding of things it's three separate systems that are glued together to give NAS + SAN functionality. Still once I actually manage to find the download for their new "unified" management tool I'll let you know how good it is

  4. Thanks to Soulfish from:

    Duke (21st September 2010)

  5. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulfish View Post
    Well they've been willing to give us the earth to get our business (I have a stack of 200gb SSDs next to me that I need to install ), but it's certainly not the most straightforward system in the world! Doesn't help that from my understanding of things it's three separate systems that are glued together to give NAS + SAN functionality. Still once I actually manage to find the download for their new "unified" management tool I'll let you know how good it is
    so how are your SSDs being used? Are they read optimised or write optimised? Hope your glue works :-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hebdenlad View Post
    so how are your SSDs being used? Are they read optimised or write optimised? Hope your glue works :-)
    They're STEC ZeusIOPS SSDs, so no idea what optimisations (if any!) have been done by STEC. We're about to use 6 of them to act as extended cache for the system using the new EMC FAST Cache system that they've just released. Any additional drives are being used in a standard RAID group for very fast access to certain databases/VDI images.

    I'm a big believer in the Sun/Oracle storage systems - I can safely say that currently the S7000 was a million times easier to setup and start using. Just a shame that Oracle couldn't discount to the same level as EMC

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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulfish View Post
    They're STEC ZeusIOPS SSDs, so no idea what optimisations (if any!) have been done by STEC. We're about to use 6 of them to act as extended cache for the system using the new EMC FAST Cache system that they've just released. Any additional drives are being used in a standard RAID group for very fast access to certain databases/VDI images.

    I'm a big believer in the Sun/Oracle storage systems - I can safely say that currently the S7000 was a million times easier to setup and start using. Just a shame that Oracle couldn't discount to the same level as EMC
    So looking at the FAST Cache info on the net it seems that EMC have only given you half the answer - i.e. addressing read performance and not write performance as well - hence you still need lots of spinning drives to maximise write performance. Also, how do you know that you need those SSDs? Does the EMC stuff have analytics nowadays? would be interested to see the interface at some point if you're OK with that? I'll bring the bikkies :-)

  8. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duke View Post
    Nope! - I don't think Phil's speaking to me any more after Andy at Cutter told me thing he shouldn't.
    That will be me in it with Phil. Try to help someone out and they drop you in it..............sigh. We at Cutter are too nice for our own good.

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    Duke (21st September 2010)

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    Quote Originally Posted by linescanner View Post
    That will be me in it with Phil. Try to help someone out and they drop you in it..............sigh. We at Cutter are too nice for our own good.
    You only told me they weren't official prices, not that they were keep-quiet prices! Anyway, I assumed that Phil (being an Oracle employee and all) would have more info than you... I forgot to ask in my email, could you let me know whether a couple of 10GbE cards are going reasonable or crazy money too?

    Anyway, attempting again to get back on track - Looks like Oracle/Sun are again onto a winner with this stuff, I've got my fingers crossed we can invest in it again soon. Soulfish - Sounds like a similar experience to our NetApp stuff. Potentially very nice kit, but nowhere near as easy to set up or manage as the S7000. They'll undercut their prices to get you into it, but then you can't afford to upgrade the hardware or get new licences.

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    Good coverage from El Reg: Oracle bigs up 7000 ZFS storage line ? The Register

    Also: Oracle's Sun ZFS - ESG

    The Reg article raises confusion over the 7720 - can anyone clarify?

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    Quote Originally Posted by john View Post
    Oh dear are you a naughty boy!!
    hmm methinks he needs some detention....

  13. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Duke View Post
    Lol...

    Anyway, to bring this back on track:

    1) Is anyone buying a 7720 and if so can I come and work for them?

    2) How do people feel the competition mounts up against the new 7x20 stuff? As far as I'm concerned, the big plus is still the Fishworks OS which beats anything else I've seen from a usability and management point of view (although I still want my user quotas done properly). Soulfish - how have found the EMC kit in comparison?
    I'm going for a 7120 will that not do you?

    I have spent a not so insignificant time this last month or so looking at storage (thanks to the delays in the new range coming out) and looked at Overland, EMC, NetApp and Hitachi.

    The Overland was good spec, looks nice kit, fairly flexible but not to the same extent as the Oracle offerings, very much a product for Small Schools, Primarys, Nurserys, SMEs etc. Pricing was very good and the support package on offer from the supplier (Net Ctrl in this case) was looking very good but just couldn't keep pace with the Oracle kit.
    EMC - too expensive, unless your Soulfish with his massive racks to fill (i've seen his racks!) then the pricing isn't really there, and just lacks the feel of the oracle kit, you need a degree in brain surgery to sort it out
    NetApp - Very nice product, good spec but lacking usable disk space due to the way it calculates its redundancy, so for my budget I was getting 7110 sized storage for a good chunk more than a 7110 cost me. They claim that due to its super clever way of de-duping etc it will beat anything out there so 4TB of space will be the equivalent of say 8 or 9TB on a more traditional storage system
    Hitachi - similar to the NetApp, more disk space avaliable to use, the only firm out there to build everything themselves so it said, they do the disks, controllers the lot so can control it through and through, and to be honest it looked a good setup but was just too costly for me.

    Overall, as I've just been saying to someone on the phone, I think the Oracle product is once you've had one which I have you just don't quite find anything feeling the same as it, those little extras you get like the Analytic's, the fact I can just decide tomorrow I want to use iSCSI and not have to buy a card or pay a fee to get it they all just give it that cosy warm feeling which the others lacked. Maybe the storage market is different though with the more you spend, we were not spending huge sums compared to the system Soulfish has got from EMC (but he needed mega TB of storage!) but at the area I'm looking at and needing for my establishment then the Oracle solutions seem to fit the bill once again (and they came in the very nick of time!)

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    Duke (22nd September 2010)

  15. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by john View Post
    unless your Soulfish with his massive racks to fill (i've seen his racks!)
    (ooh-err)

    Quote Originally Posted by john View Post
    NetApp - [...] They claim that due to its super clever way of de-duping etc it will beat anything out there so 4TB of space will be the equivalent of say 8 or 9TB on a more traditional storage system
    They tried this on me (after I'd purchased unfortunately):

    Me: Okay, so I want to de-dupe my backups share to give Backup Exec more space to use, I've just set up a small test share here so we can try it?
    Reseller Engineer: No problem, we just do this through the cli, then this through the bui, then this via the serial connection, and bingo!
    M: That seems a little complicated, but cool, that de-duped by about 40% which will save me loads of space! So, now can we apply it to the full 2TB backups share?
    RE: Oh, this box will only de-dupe 500GB volumes.
    M: Huh? I wasn't aware of that licence limitation when we bought it... what do I need to upgrade then to de-dupe more?
    RE: You can't.
    M: What? I don't mind paying for a bigger license, this is something we really need to get this box working for us, having de-dupe limited to 500GB volumes is useless for me.
    RE: No, you can't, it's a hardware limitation.
    M: You mean the hardware somewhere literally can't handle de-duping more than 500GB?
    RE: Well... it's more an artificial cap on this model, it could do more but we don't support it.
    M: So how do I de-dupe more data?
    RE: You'll need to buy the next model up in the range, that'll be £XX,XXX.
    M: ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Duke View Post
    (ooh-err)



    They tried this on me (after I'd purchased unfortunately):

    Me: Okay, so I want to de-dupe my backups share to give Backup Exec more space to use, I've just set up a small test share here so we can try it?
    Reseller Engineer: No problem, we just do this through the cli, then this through the bui, then this via the serial connection, and bingo!
    M: That seems a little complicated, but cool, that de-duped by about 40% which will save me loads of space! So, now can we apply it to the full 2TB backups share?
    RE: Oh, this box will only de-dupe 500GB volumes.
    M: Huh? I wasn't aware of that licence limitation when we bought it... what do I need to upgrade then to de-dupe more?
    RE: You can't.
    M: What? I don't mind paying for a bigger license, this is something we really need to get this box working for us, having de-dupe limited to 500GB volumes is useless for me.
    RE: No, you can't, it's a hardware limitation.
    M: You mean the hardware somewhere literally can't handle de-duping more than 500GB?
    RE: Well... it's more an artificial cap on this model, it could do more but we don't support it.
    M: So how do I de-dupe more data?
    RE: You'll need to buy the next model up in the range, that'll be £XX,XXX.
    M: ...
    I at least had that sort of discussion with Netapp before we purchased. For some reason they just didn't want to be competitive compared to everyone else. It was a little crazy how the FAS2040 was actually more powerful than the FAS2050 - strange naming system!

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    Hi All,

    Closely following these posts on the 7120 and it looks the business. Can anyone give me an idea on starting price of the 7120. Just want to see if it is out of our league!!

  18. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by fox1977 View Post
    Can anyone give me an idea on starting price of the 7120. Just want to see if it is out of our league!!
    *poke* > Click

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