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Hardware Thread, Face plates - QUOTE? places to buy? in Technical; Originally Posted by powdarrmonkey He is a fail, not the PC. The case is earthed for a reason. The PSU ...
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    mpe
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    Quote Originally Posted by powdarrmonkey View Post
    He is a fail, not the PC.

    The case is earthed for a reason. The PSU is electrically isolated from the mains and provides only a maximum of 12V to the processor,
    The most you could possibly get out of an ATX PSU would be 24V which is still below 50V.

    which is not a hazardous level.
    About the only way to get a hazardous voltage inside the case would be cold cathode lighting. Which your average PAT tester probably wouldn't recognise as hazardous anyway.

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    Speaking as someone who is PAT Certified, then I think you'll find he is technically correct, as PC's without the front panel's therefore fail the "IP2X" (finger) test
    .
    Ie, you can touch exposed "live" metal parts, and someone could tamper with the internal cables and leave them at potential risk of fire (if they damage them).
    There is a lot more to PAT testing and risk evaluation than just saying "ah well, it's low voltage, no one's going to blow themselves up"

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    PAT Certified? WTF is that? Did you watch the DVD and do an on-line test, or a proper C&G 2377?

    You CANNOT touch "live" metal parts through a floppy aperture.

    Would you fail this?

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    Quote Originally Posted by andy_d View Post
    Speaking as someone who is PAT Certified,
    Certified by who exactly? There being plenty of "PAT Certificates" which you might as well have made yourself.

    then I think you'll find he is technically correct, as PC's without the front panel's therefore fail the "IP2X" (finger) test
    .
    Ie, you can touch exposed "live" metal parts,
    Closer to IPXXB considering that the standard "finger" is only 80mm long.

    and someone could tamper with the internal cables and leave them at potential risk of fire (if they damage them).
    If you were consider every possible sabotage there wouldn't be much to pass. Even sabotage is something which can sensibly appear on a risk assesment then the low voltage wiring of PCs is likely to be the least of your concerns...

    There is a lot more to PAT testing and risk evaluation than just saying "ah well, it's low voltage, no one's going to blow themselves up"
    The information from the "horses mouth" (The HSE) gives the advice that such testing isn't needed for under 50V. Whilst at the same time strongly recommending visual inspection of mains cables, correct fusing, etc.
    Common problems with risk assesments include making a "song and dance" about unlikely/complex risks (whilst possibly ignoring likely/common ones) and failing to consider risks associated with measures intended to reduce risks. A classic example of the latter being "wet floor" warning signs causing an obstruction long after any possible water has evaporated.

    Note that there are risks associated with PAT testing. Including damage from inappropriate tests/testing methods and mains leads not being fully plugged back in afterwards. Thus any sane risk assesment would recognise that excessive PAT tests are at best a waste of time and money.

    Odds on the myth of the need of an annual PAT test comes from PAT testing contractors.

    The kind of things in schools which are likely to need the most frequent inspection in schools are vacuum cleaners/floor buffers. Due having long cables which are very frequently coiled/uncoiled (quite likely by people who don't know how to correctly coil cables) and even more frequently plugged in and out.

    When it comes to ICT/AV the highest risk (but still low in H&S terms) comes from teacher laptop PSUs. Which can also have highly variable inspection/testing needs, depending on individual staff members (and their pets).

    IMHO employing external PAT testers in school is likely to result in a poor job in terms of actual Health and Safety. Due to things which don't need testing frequently (even at all) being over tested; things which may actually need frequent testing not being tested as frequently as they should be and the school not actually having meaningful documentation about what tests have actually been performed and why (especially if contractors change).
    That's before you even consider the financial implications.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew_C View Post
    PAT Certified? WTF is that? Did you watch the DVD and do an on-line test, or a proper C&G 2377?

    You CANNOT touch "live" metal parts through a floppy aperture.

    Would you fail this?
    Is that a trick question? Considering this is a North American PSU...
    Thus it would need a voltage converter. But it might well be a better idea to replace it with an appropriatly rated BS1363 "wall wart" PSU.

    I'd say "fail" due to the voltage rating; it being quite easy to obtain plug converters which do not change voltage and that this may be difficult to distingush this from a similar device will operate at 230VAC.

    Most worrying would be someone passing this and applying a lable obscuring the information on the back. (Ironically such a "pass" should actually turn it into a definite "fail").
    Whilst you'd think it should be obvious that such lables should not obscure ratings/serial numbers some people don't appear to realise this.

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    I believe they are referring to the bare metal plug for the connection to the device.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mpe View Post
    Is that a trick question? Considering this is a North American PSU...

    I'd say "fail" due to the voltage rating; it being quite easy to obtain plug converters which do not change voltage and that this may be difficult to distingush this from a similar device will operate at 230VAC.
    That's not "fail", that's "withdraw from service and recommend a more suitable device". There's nothing actually dangerous about it when used within the intended operational limits, that's the key.

    Most worrying would be someone passing this and applying a lable obscuring the information on the back. (Ironically such a "pass" should actually turn it into a definite "fail").
    Whilst you'd think it should be obvious that such lables should not obscure ratings/serial numbers some people don't appear to realise this.
    Again not a fail, just inspector incompetence.

    Quote Originally Posted by p858snake View Post
    I believe they are referring to the bare metal plug for the connection to the device.
    Who?

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    Quote Originally Posted by p858snake View Post
    I believe they are referring to the bare metal plug for the connection to the device.
    / trying to be smart, and got put on his arse...

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    The whole case is earthed, you could no more get a shock by putting you fingers inside as touching the outside. There is no difference. The guy is 100% idiot.

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    Any computer here that is missing parts of the front panel (below the floppy drive, so metal chassis is visible) gets failed by the external PAT testers, as do laptops with keys missing (so the keyboard button contacts are visible)



    What would we do without hot glue?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mpe View Post
    Is that a trick question? Considering this is a North American PSU...
    Oh RATS. I'd missed that, and did indeed mean the "dangerous" 12v bare connector!

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    Quote Originally Posted by truslack View Post
    as do laptops with keys missing (so the keyboard button contacts are visible)
    MY TAXES ARE PAYING FOR THIS NONSENSE! Please sort them out!

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    Quote Originally Posted by truslack View Post
    Any computer here that is missing parts of the front panel (below the floppy drive, so metal chassis is visible) gets failed by the external PAT testers
    So do they fail all PC's with exposed metalwork? Never mind the blanking plates in many cases the entire fascia can be removed without any special tools. What about any with USB sockets

    as do laptops with keys missing (so the keyboard button contacts are visible)
    In which case they really don't have a clue. Which renders the whole exercise a waste of time and money. That's before even considering if they have broken something; passed something they should have failed/fixed or failed to even check something which should have been checked.



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