Sun/Netapp

[sacrej]

had an interesting conversation with a supplier who provided me with some documentation on a lawsuit between netapp and sun based on their storage solutions, specifically the 7000+ series.
he seemed to think it might have implications for sun users should it go through..
though I will note the file was dated end of 2008 and he didnt seem to know much about the sun hardware..

could anyone shed anymore light on this as i'm currently looking at the netapp fas2020 and the sun 7110 (4tb)

[Duke]

I imagine it's the whole ZFS / WAFL argument which has been going on for years. See here for more info on the lawsuit from NetApp's point of view. I had a NetApp reseller try to use this argument on me when I told them I was looking at the S7000 stuff, and it really makes them look kind of desperate. The S7000 protocol licensing system alone is making NetApp panic.

Obviously I'm not a lawyer, and I don't know the internals of the lawsuit, but as a customer it's not something that's particularly bothering me and it certainly didn't put me off buying an S7410.

I used NetApp for a couple of years before I moved to the S7000 range - so much of an improvement! If you'd like to chat, drop me a PM and I'm happy to give you a ring or put you in touch with very good people at either Sun or a good reseller.

EDIT: (p.s. don't buy the FAS2020 - a mobile Celeron and 1GB RAM have no place in a filer, even the NetApp fans don't think much of it)

Cheers,
Chris

[sacrej]

well I have already spoken to Phil from Sun and Andy Trevor from the cutter project so I've got a good idea on specs, prices and functionality.

I like the sun gear and I am trying to push for it, though we have got a company coming down next week with regards to Netapp amongst other things, whether we go with them, well who knows...it all depends on what price they come up with, but so far its looking to be more than the sun option.

Once I have written up a full plan, I will pop it on here as I would like to see peoples opinions and if they can suggest a timescale for the project.

[Duke]

Haha, they were exactly the people I was going to suggest!

Happy to have a chat some time if you want, I've had a FAS2020 for about 3 years and an S7410 for a year. The FAS2020 has been relegated to a D2D backup device while the 7410 handles everything else - including virtualisation.

Cheers,
Chris

[sacrej]

well what we want to do is:

virtualise 10 servers to 3 physical (have specced up servers with dual quads and 32gb ram)
attach those servers to a storage array (currently we use a server using no more than 500gb for user account and read-only/staff shared area's) currently quite interested in the Sun 7110 4tb
replace aging LTO2 tape backup with some form of faster more efficient device (perhaps another 7110 in a distant block)
we have 120 dell 170l's that need replacing, but what I have suggested is that instead we run them as thin clients (we already have 500 ts cals) as we can then run win7 on them, and then money that was going to be spent on pc's can be spent on infrastructure...ts client software could be something like 2x or Codtech CULT linux based o.s.
Hyper-visor will be either citrix xen (free) or hyper-v (including in schools agreement) - we dont have the budget for hyper-v
we have systems config manager (have tested it, but not setup in a production environment yet)
exchange 2003
ISA server 2004
AD is operating at 2003 R2 level

does anyone see anything disgustingly wrong with that?

[Duke]

Looks good to me! I assume you meant that you couldn't afford VMware rather than Hyper-V? Personally I'd see if you can get the budget for it because it's pretty awesome, but Xen is also really cool (not a Hyper-V fan personally). Have you looked at the Sun Ray thin clients at all?

Mirrored 7110's with an NDMP tape archive should sort out the backups. Hardware wise it all sounds pretty good, but definitely talk to Andy to make sure the 7110 will meet your requirements for capacity and performance if you're doing a lot of virtualisation.

Chris

[sacrej]

Looks good to me! I assume you meant that you couldn't afford VMware rather than Hyper-V? Personally I'd see if you can get the budget for it because it's pretty awesome, but Xen is also really cool (not a Hyper-V fan personally). Have you looked at the Sun Ray thin clients at all?

Mirrored 7110's with an NDMP tape archive should sort out the backups. Hardware wise it all sounds pretty good, but definitely talk to Andy to make sure the 7110 will meet your requirements for capacity and performance if you're doing a lot of virtualisation.

Chris

well we have around 1000 users (including staff)

got about 40wyse units, which are okay, but really if we can use existing pc's...it would be better..
we're changing to an acadamy at the end of the year so they're not prepared to pump to much into this

I would say could probably allow 20-25k for 3 servers and 2 x 7110's and thats at the very top of our budget.

if we were to replace those pc's with £300 machines with monitors, that would be nearly £40,000..
for the desktops I would rather wait until the acadamy comes in and let them replace them...infrastructure is more important, as all of our servers are past it.

[pete]

The FAS2020 is being discontinued and won't support Ontap 8, look at the 2040. Your supplier should know this, especially since he appears to be pro-Netapp (he may know, especially if he's banging on about discounts).

[CSwan]

The FAS 2020 is most definately not going to be discountinued for at least 12 months, so there is no need to worry about that.

I think the factors to consider other than what the hardware is the value that the reseller can add in terms of post sales and technical support to you.

[Duke]

I think the factors to consider other than what the hardware is the value that the reseller can add in terms of post sales and technical support to you.

Definitely a good point and I must admit the Sun and Cutter Project have been very good to us in this way. Always happy to have a chat and drop by to make sure things are running well and to see if there's anything they can help with.

[CSwan]

I know NetApp also have an extremely powerful support mechanism in place.

You may find yourself in a dilemma but i know that you wouldnt go far wrong with NetApp.

[apaton]

Sorry to bring back an old thread but

NetApp and Oracle have made friends over ZFS!!

NetApp - Company - News@NetApp - NetApp and Oracle Agree to Dismiss Lawsuits

[Duke]

NetApp and Oracle have made friends over ZFS!!

What do we reckon? Larry threw money at NetApp, or he found some Oracle patents that NetApp infringe on and told them it'd be in their best interests to be quiet about ZFS?