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Hardware Thread, Power in 2014 in Technical; So, as of 2014 all electrical goods sold in the EU will have to consume 0w in their "off" state. ...
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    synaesthesia's Avatar
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    Power in 2014

    So, as of 2014 all electrical goods sold in the EU will have to consume 0w in their "off" state. People like Sky with an infamous inability to understand "standby" will be drumming their fingers furiously. Already PC PSU manufacturers are looking at ways to achieve this. I've just read an amusing article by someone obviously half my age citing a "unique" PSU which consumes 0w in off state by doing something rather clever - a direct link between the "off" button on you PC with the power supply. Advanced stuff like wake-on-lan will be worked into it later on.

    Obviously these people were not alive/talking before ATX power supplies - where indeed the power buttons were directly linked (and sometimes built into the PSU itself - I had a PC with a switch that took two hands to flip up!) and there were also direct links into the NIC for WOL.
    And cmos (yes, real cmos) batteries were changed annually

    So, what are peoples thoughts on this ruling in general? I think it's about time, we all remember the debacle with Sky boxes using the same amount of power in standby as they do when running Many folks are turning off at the wall anyway - but with WOL that's not exactly convenient.

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    glennda's Avatar
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    I think we will see pc's with two power buttons - like the one on the back that turns off the PSU but both on the front - one to turn pc off totally i.e no wake on lan and one for turning it half off so there is still power to the mobo for wake on lan. but i am not sure if this will suffice for the EU numpties who make these laws - it took them over a decade to decide we can eat a bendy banana or carrot!

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    Mr.Ben's Avatar
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    I think we will just see the WoL part be cleverly powered from a watch battery.

    Oh what fun changing those will be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by glennda View Post
    it took them over a decade to decide we can eat a bendy banana or carrot!
    Actually, they have never made laws concerning whether or not you can eat bendy bananas or carrots - as far as I know, the only rules in that kind of area specify things like "if you want to call your carrots class 1 then they have to meet this spec" but nothing much more than that.

    It might not be easy to make a computer that can be completely powered off and still be remotely managed (WoL, vPro etc) but it can't be impossible. Some kind of onboard battery is the obvious idea - I'd guess you could have a small rechargeable. It wouldn't have to do much - keep the LAN circuit just listening for particular data; if it gets it, then you trigger some kind of relay circuit to turn on the main power.

    There are other things to sort out - how do you make the monitor go to zero power use when the PC is switched off. I'd guess you could design it so that it completely powers off if there's no data but then how does it power back on when the computer restarts? Does it need to - would it be too hard to educate people to push the power button on the monitor as well as on the PC?

    There's the potential for saving a fair bit of money like this so it makes sense to at least try and do it.

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    glennda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by srochford View Post
    Actually, they have never made laws concerning whether or not you can eat bendy bananas or carrots - as far as I know, the only rules in that kind of area specify things like "if you want to call your carrots class 1 then they have to meet this spec" but nothing much more than that.
    that was only cucumbers - the rest had to conform like a carrots could only have one root point - but i will admit that the laws regarding the bendy ness of banana's are still in place its that it can't be to straight! and bunches of grapes couldn't be more then 1kg! all stupid rules.

    But as you say the screen thing could work the same i.e small battery waiting for the right signal from the pc wakes the whole monitor up or something like that

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    gshaw's Avatar
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    As long as the onboard rechargeable battery works better than when they tried it with the BBC Master then it should be fine


    Early on the BBC Master 128 hit the headlines for an interesting reason - exploding battery packs! The battery packs were used by internal clock and also stored various settings that were configurable via *CONFIGURE commands. The original ones recharged themselves, which caused the problem. The Micro User reported on one that blew up in a hospital. Acorn had to do a quick recall!

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    This is stupid.
    I *want* my devices to run in standby and I don't care about paying for it. To me, the convenience of being able to turn my telly on from my bed in the mornings is worth it. If I want to spend my money on a few W a month then the EU should just go cry a river. Whist I understand that we collectively as a whole use a fair amount of power leaving devices in standby, I don't believe it should be down to regulators to tell us what to do.

    If I didn't, I'd turn things off at the wall (yes, I do this)or get a timer clock.
    Last edited by DrCheese; 9th March 2010 at 05:18 PM.

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    localzuk's Avatar
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    All devices should have an absolute 'off' mode - without having to switch off at the wall.

    At the same time, they should also be allowed to have standby mode for those who want it - for your WOL stuff etc...

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    DrCheese's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    All devices should have an absolute 'off' mode - without having to switch off at the wall.

    At the same time, they should also be allowed to have standby mode for those who want it - for your WOL stuff etc...
    Yes, Just add a "total power off" button on remote controls. Problem solved.

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    IMHO it would be better to have a maximum power consumption for 'off' mode. Some devices are terrible for using power when you have shut them down whilst others use a minimal amount. Perhaps a 1W maximum would be more achievable?

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    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ric_ View Post
    IMHO it would be better to have a maximum power consumption for 'off' mode. Some devices are terrible for using power when you have shut them down whilst others use a minimal amount. Perhaps a 1W maximum would be more achievable?
    Yeah, that'd make sense. It'd allow things like TV's and set-top boxes to update themselves whilst not chewing through power. There are already desktop style computers that can run at 6W such as fit-PC2 Specifications – fit-PC2 So creating one which can do basic tasks at 1W should be relatively easy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ric_ View Post
    IMHO it would be better to have a maximum power consumption for 'off' mode. Some devices are terrible for using power when you have shut them down whilst others use a minimal amount. Perhaps a 1W maximum would be more achievable?
    This man is right.

    Using no power = no functionality which consumers are used to. Even using no power by "cheating" with a battery is still using power.

    Batteries are probably the way forward as it is hard to draw tiny amounts at mains voltage. Could even switch the PSU back on when we need a recharge.

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    Quote Originally Posted by glennda View Post
    that was only cucumbers - the rest had to conform like a carrots could only have one root point - but i will admit that the laws regarding the bendy ness of banana's are still in place its that it can't be to straight! and bunches of grapes couldn't be more then 1kg! all stupid rules.
    I know it really shouldn't bother me but I just find it irritating when people make up fairy stories like this.

    I'm sure there are many things the EU gets wrong but it's simply not true to say that they control the shape of bananas, cucumbers carrots or anything else. All they do is specify that if you're selling a particular grade of vegetable or fruit then it should meet a particular spec - just like if you buy network cable labelled "Cat 5" you know something about what sort of wire you're buying.

    It may seem pointless but when you're going to machine process carrots and cucumbers etc then you need to have particular shapes - you can't get them through the machines otherwise. If you're Mr Birds Eye or whatever then you want some kind of standard governing the stuff you buy and you want the same standard where ever you buy your stuff.

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    glennda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by srochford View Post
    I know it really shouldn't bother me but I just find it irritating when people make up fairy stories like this.

    I'm sure there are many things the EU gets wrong but it's simply not true to say that they control the shape of bananas, cucumbers carrots or anything else. All they do is specify that if you're selling a particular grade of vegetable or fruit then it should meet a particular spec - just like if you buy network cable labelled "Cat 5" you know something about what sort of wire you're buying.

    It may seem pointless but when you're going to machine process carrots and cucumbers etc then you need to have particular shapes - you can't get them through the machines otherwise. If you're Mr Birds Eye or whatever then you want some kind of standard governing the stuff you buy and you want the same standard where ever you buy your stuff.
    Steve without meaning to cause offence it is actually true, i learnt about it while doing my food training 2 years ago although some things such as cucumbers can be put into the classes etc other things cannot such as carrots not being able to have to roots.

    as for leeks this is a stupid law "The largest leek in the same bundle must not be more than twice the diameter of the smallest" was introduced by the eu in 2002. source

    and this
    Bananas must not bend abnormally
    Bananas should be at least 5.5in long and 1.05in round
    Peaches below 2.2in diameter must not be sold between July and October
    Carrots must be 0.75in wide, apart from baby carrots
    Source

    as the article says asda where taken to court over it but the judge threw the case out

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    Perhaps it would be easier if all food was tinned... cos tins are easy to standardise

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