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Hardware Thread, Sun 7000series storage (7110) NFS user problem in Technical; Originally Posted by Duke Hmm, not sure if I'm confused here or not: The VM which runs MySQL is running ...
  1. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Duke View Post
    Hmm, not sure if I'm confused here or not:

    • The VM which runs MySQL is running from the 7110 (i.e. it's VDHs are on there)
    • There is an additional share on the 7110 which is mapped to the VM for MySQL to use


    I really, really might be wrong here, but I can't see how this would be of benefit. If the VM is already on the 7110, then if you tell MySQL to use the normal, local storage location it will already be on the 7110 (inside the VHD)? Granted, it wouldn't have it's own dedicated share, but unless there is a performance difference in the shares this wouldn't matter. The 7110 is still doing the same amount of read/writes, just in a slightly different location.

    I admit I didn't look closely at the Sun doc you linked to, but my guess would be they might be talking about a physical Linux server running from local disk drives, then you map NFS storage on the 7110 to it and tell MySQL to use that remote storage.

    Again, I may be completely wrong, haven't had a chance to look closely!

    Chris
    Correct - the VM hd is stored on the 7110, and the mysql data share is also running as a seperate nfs share.

    The problem is the VHD is one big (big) file that is constantly being modified.

    The Mysql Database is several small files, for example each table has its own set of files. This allows the 7110 to cache and do its own whizzy bits with the files (tables) that are used the most. This gives you a higher level of optimisation. At least that is my understanding of it.

    Even if I was running a physical DB server I would still be having the same user problem with the NFS share.

  2. #17


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    Quote Originally Posted by Duke View Post
    I think you might see a slight performance difference for something like a file server (not saying it's a bad idea and I'm sure you had your reasons for doing so!) because data's having to be processed by Windows then get stored on the NAS/SAN, rather than going direct to the NAS/SAN.

    However, in the case of MySQL, data will always have to be processed by the Linux server anyway before it interacts with the disks, so I can't see it making much difference whether the path is to the Linux VHD on the NAS/SAN, or via the Linux server to another share on the NAS/SAN.

    j17sparky - For what it's worth, our users talk directly to our Sun 7410 for userdata and resources, but Windows still has the edge for management of userdata in a Windows environment. If you're dependant on using FSRM for quotas or NTFRS for replication then I see no problem (or alternative) to using a Windows server that's connected to the remote storage.

    Chris
    Thats my understanding too.

    Im currently investigating the idea of having users talk directly to the 7410, whether the permissions are suitable for our needs. We dont actually enforce quotas, or have enough servers to use NTFRS so no problems there. We just have PITA acls where kids can only read in the shared area, but some kids can write new data to a subfolder but cant delete...
    Last edited by j17sparky; 25th February 2010 at 03:30 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WiPPaH View Post
    Correct - the VM hd is stored on the 7110, and the mysql data share is also running as a seperate nfs share.

    The problem is the VHD is one big (big) file that is constantly being modified.

    The Mysql Database is several small files, for example each table has its own set of files. This allows the 7110 to cache and do its own whizzy bits with the files (tables) that are used the most. This gives you a higher level of optimisation. At least that is my understanding of it.
    I see where you're coming from and I thought that might be the reasoning. What you're saying makes sense and I honestly don't know enough about it to provide a 100% clear explanation. If caching is done at the file-level rather than the block-level, then the 7110 will attempt to cache the the whole VHD, rather than just the MySQL files.

    However, can you disable caching per-share? If not, the VHD and MySQL files would both get cached anyway, it's just a case of where the data would be stored in RAM. In the real world, I'm not sure you're going to see any noticeable difference between the two. You should get most of the benefits from the fact that the VHD and the MySQL files inside it are on the 7110 anyway and getting cached.

    if the caching is done at the block-level, I think the whole point is moot anyway as only the 'MySQL blocks' and other regularly accessed data would be cached. However, file-level caching would make a lot more sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by WiPPaH View Post
    Even if I was running a physical DB server I would still be having the same user problem with the NFS share.
    No argument there and I'm not sure on the solution although I think ACLs are the answer, I just don't know enough to say what's needed.

    The good news? I've got Phil Lawrence from Sun Micro coming down tomorrow and I'll ask him for you!

    Chris

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    Quote Originally Posted by Duke View Post
    The good news? I've got Phil Lawrence from Sun Micro coming down tomorrow and I'll ask him for you!

    Chris
    Thanks Chris - ACL have to be the answer like you said, I suppose I just need a good guide for it.

    If I get this working I will test the differences between a seperate NFS mysql db and a "part of the vdk" db and see if it was worth it!

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    Quote Originally Posted by j17sparky View Post
    Im currently investigating the idea of having users talk directly to the 7410, whether the permissions are suitable for our needs. We dont actually enforce quotas, or have enough servers to use NTFRS so no problems there. We just have PITA acls where kids can only read in the shared area, but some kids can write new data to a subfolder but cant delete...
    The ACL management is pretty good, although in reality you're only going to be using the 7410 to manage the top-level permissions. I think Sun actually now recommend you use the Computer Management within Windows (check that before doing it) to configure your permissions if you're going to be using it in a Windows environment.

    As far as your awkward ACLs go, if you can do it under Windows you should be able to do it on the 7410. Once you get down to the sub-folder level you'll be using the usual Windows Security window to configure permissions anyway.

    If either of you have anything specific you want me to ask Phil tomorrow, drop me a PM.

    Chris

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    Quote Originally Posted by WiPPaH View Post
    If I get this working I will test the differences between a seperate NFS mysql db and a "part of the vdk" db and see if it was worth it!
    Definitely a good idea, I'd be interested to see the results!

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    I think there might be some benefits for caching in terms of intelligent read ahead and cache utilisation. Having the DB on a remote system also has some advantages if you ever need to move the mysqld.

    On the ID mapping, remember that NFS matches users based on their numeric ID, not the name.

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    I have a Sun guy looking into this for you. Can't promise anything as I know how busy they are, but you might hopefully get a response.

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    Any update on this Duke?

    I am having a similar problem with our webservers that have a shared nfs based webroot folder.

    Its chown'd by root to user apache, runs when I do "service httpd start" as root (runs as root), but if I restart and it runs as user 'apache' on system startup I get access denied.

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    How about adding the users to /etc/passwd on your NFS server for a test?

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    Quote Originally Posted by WiPPaH View Post
    Any update on this Duke?

    I am having a similar problem with our webservers that have a shared nfs based webroot folder.

    Its chown'd by root to user apache, runs when I do "service httpd start" as root (runs as root), but if I restart and it runs as user 'apache' on system startup I get access denied.
    Will try to get you a reply as soon as possible mate.

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    Just picking up this thread and read it a few times, I personally don't see ACL's as the answer.

    ACL's are good but I think its overkill in this situation.

    I would create a NFS share for mysql-data
    Permissions, nobody, other, 777 (rwx-rwx-rwx)
    Change the block size to suite your database, try 8k. (database record size)

    Secure the NFS connection to host IP of your CentOS MySQL server with exception for host machine (centos) and allow root access.

    Mount share from centos <s7000>/export/mysql-data
    mount <s7000>:/export/mysql-data /nfs-mysql

    As root create a directory for the mysql user
    $ mkdir /nfs-mysql/data
    Change ownership of directory to mysql user
    $ chown <mysql-user> /nfs-mysql/data
    Change permission to protect your database from other local users
    $ chmod 700 /nfs-mysql/data

    Then this should work fine for your mysql database in /nfs-mysql/data.

    The S7000 doesn't really care about user names for NFS it just records the uuid's. Mapping to a real user is for the NFS client to sort out.

    Andy
    Last edited by apaton; 2nd March 2010 at 08:54 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by apaton View Post
    Just picking up this thread and read it a few times, I personally don't see ACL's as the answer.

    ACL's are good but I think its overkill in this situation.

    I would create a NFS share for mysql-data
    Permissions, nobody, other, 777 (rwx-rwx-rwx)
    Change the block size to suite your database, try 8k. (database record size)

    Secure the NFS connection to host IP of your CentOS MySQL server with exception for host machine (centos) and allow root access.

    Mount share from centos <s7000>/export/mysql-data
    mount <s7000>:/export/mysql-data /nfs-mysql

    As root create a directory for the mysql user
    $ mkdir /nfs-mysql/data
    Change ownership of directory to mysql user
    $ chown <mysql-user> /nfs-mysql/data
    Change permission to protect your database from other local users
    $ chmod 700 /nfs-mysql/data

    Then this should work fine for your mysql database in /nfs-mysql/data.

    The S7000 doesn't really care about user names for NFS it just records the uuid's. Mapping to a real user is for the NFS client to sort out.

    Andy
    I had another go with this and I think I am pretty much there now - Thanks!

    As you say the 7110 doesn't really care much for knowing the username, aslong as the user and group are set correctly (which actually does automatically when you chown the nfs mount point).

    So my setup is as follows (it might help someone else)
    * Share setup initially as nobody,other (but then gets changed to 27 (the uid of the mysql user on the client)) wx-rx-rx
    *Create an NFS exception that allows read/write root access to the VM hostname.
    *Add the mount point to the autofs file and mount the share to /mnt/MySQL_Data
    *As root chown the MySQL_Data folder to mysql:mysql (this will change the uid on the 7110)
    *as root start the mysqld service.

    Thats pretty much it!

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