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Hardware Thread, Architecture of this server in Technical; not looking good for vm ware setup at this rate. Maybe the old dl380 g5 server could be raid 1+0 ...
  1. #46
    duxbuz's Avatar
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    not looking good for vm ware setup at this rate.

    Maybe the old dl380 g5 server could be raid 1+0 to hold the vmware images. Thats got 5 SAS drives in at moment.

    Seperate question: Why do you only run the esxi on a machine and not use the harddrive to hold the images also? Bad practice?

  2. #47
    duxbuz's Avatar
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    Sounds like the only way to get round this in a reasonable budget would be to build own NAS, as all qnap stuff is sata and its STILL expensive

  3. #48
    Duke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by duxbuz View Post
    not looking good for vm ware setup at this rate.

    Maybe the old dl380 g5 server could be raid 1+0 to hold the vmware images. Thats got 5 SAS drives in at moment.

    Seperate question: Why do you only run the esxi on a machine and not use the harddrive to hold the images also? Bad practice?
    Not so much a bad idea, and if you're using ESXi then it's not too big a problem. The main reason for shared storage is if you're using the paid version of VMware (be it ESX or ESXi) then you can 'cluster' your VMware servers so that if one ever fails then another server will detect it and start the VMs that were running on that host back up. To do this, the VMs need to be stored in a central location that all the servers can access, so having them on one server's HDD is no good.

    I think based on what sounds like financial limitations for you, I'd avoid going for a large virtualisation deployment. It can be a really good idea, but it does often involve putting all your eggs in one basket so you need to make sure you have the right hardware.

    If you've got a spare server, put ESXi on it and use the local drives, but don't run anything critical on it for now, at least not until you can get a good backup strategy going. If you can get two servers and some kind of shared storage then look at the free version of Xen, which will allow you to take advantage of things like failover for free.

    Cheers,
    Chris

  4. #49
    duxbuz's Avatar
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    chris,

    I was hoping to use the virtulisation for hardware consolidation. It would be a free version. Esxi or xen or hyperv.

    This would allow me to put my linux proxy on and save having boxes all over the comms room.

    Currently we dont have a BDC and next to nothing in regards to any failsafes concerning the current DC, just data and sys state backups. i am stating this so you can see that i am not maybe going to be in a worse position if i dont have failover. I would still have to rely on current backup strategies. But i would poss be in better postion with a BDC.

    I was wondering how much load a DC is on a vm. If its going to be better to have a DC directly on the hardware on its own then i will keep it this way.

    The BDC i could run on the esxi (but as raid5 only)? Then i can use this for the linux proxy too and poss lab servers?

    Thanks

  5. #50


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    ^ What he said.


    So lets start again. What do you have? What are you planning on buying? And what services do you need to run? Between us all im sure we can come up with something which is both suitable for your school, and abit more interesting for you

    What id probably be looking at is buying a new server to be a fileserver and main DC. And putting ESXi/Xen on the old one and running a second DC, running your image deployment from it, any www services etc...


    While i remember, one thing i dont think has been mentioned is you really need a dedicated switch. Nice and fast possibly with link aggrigation, and preferably with the ability to do VLANing.

  6. #51
    duxbuz's Avatar
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    Ok currently
    DL380 G5 5x 10k SAS 146gb drives, also getting some more memory to take up to 8gb

    got 3com 4500g switches x2 and some baseline switches

    About to order a ML115 with 4 500 gb HDDs and 8gb ram

    And was going to order a qnap 439, but not too sure on this although storage in a rack would be nice

    couple of boxes with linux on and also couple of boxes with lab servs on.

    all server stuff is 2003 std but am going to upgrade to 2008 r2 which current server will run and ml115 will run.

    Thanks

  7. #52
    Duke's Avatar
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    How much budget have you got for the new server and (potential) SAN/NAS?

  8. #53
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    i have no figure. But the qnap being £800 and the server being £200, i would think something around that.

    Plus all the parts i have bought another £500-1000

    So small budget i.e i dont think boss would appreciate me putting a 2K storage item on his desk.

    but if i was imperative we needed it he might go for it.

    But with the way we have gone on i dont know if it is imperative.

    :S

  9. #54
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    I think you're probably going to struggle with an enterprise solution on that budget for obvious reasons. If your backup/failsafe systems are limited already then as you say, even basic virtualisation may be of benefit. I see no issue with running a secondary DC and Linux Proxy on a basic ESXi host. Check how much CPU and RAM they're using, but it shouldn't be that high. It's always a good idea to keep your primary DC physical, regardless of your virtualisation setup.

    The DL380 with SAS drives, decent CPU and 8GB RAM sounds like a good VM host (if the hardware is compatible) and you can run the VMs off the local disks for now. Like j17sparky said, use the new server as the main DC and file server. DC's shouldn't hit the disks much and file serving doesn't require that much authentication/CPU/RAM so the two roles should play nice on the new server.

    I assume you're using 64-bit OSs on the servers or Enterprise editions of Windows Server so you can actually make use of the 8GB RAM?

    Cheers,
    Chris

  10. #55

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    a DL380 g5 will run esxi fine, i had one at my last place that had
    5gb ram and happily ran 4 vm's without going above 50% total cpu, we have 3 here running KVM on Ubuntu which has 64gb ram and hosts 16 vm's!! and the total cpu usage is nothing!!

  11. #56
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    It's worth noting that the ML115 will not do RAID with ESXi without an additional RAID card as the RAID on the Intel ICH10R has no driver support.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DMcCoy View Post
    It's worth noting that the ML115 will not do RAID with ESXi without an additional RAID card as the RAID on the Intel ICH10R has no driver support.
    Worth looking at Citrix Xenserver then as it seems to have alot more driver support.


    Quote Originally Posted by Duke View Post
    I see no issue with running a secondary DC and Linux Proxy on a basic ESXi host.
    Just for comparison on a 4core single CPU xeon x3360 with 8gb ram we have;

    Seconday DC
    ISA2006
    Openaccess WAP Endian router
    Dansguardian Proxy
    Moodle VLE
    Intranet

    CPU = 10%
    RAM = 96% (and 3gb of that is the ISA box)
    Last edited by j17sparky; 1st March 2010 at 01:59 PM.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duke View Post

    The DL380 with SAS drives, decent CPU and 8GB RAM sounds like a good VM host (if the hardware is compatible) and you can run the VMs off the local disks for now. Like j17sparky said, use the new server as the main DC and file server. DC's shouldn't hit the disks much and file serving doesn't require that much authentication/CPU/RAM so the two roles should play nice on the new server.
    I would presure that I would be aiming for raid 1+0 then on the DL380.

    Shame I will lose lots of space, but then i will just have to move stuff about.

    Why is it best practice to have DC on physical machine?

    Thanks

  14. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by duxbuz View Post
    Why is it best practice to have DC on physical machine?
    Because of clock skews, and the temptation to roll back snapshots. We have them on virtual machines quite happily though, YMMV.

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    Quote Originally Posted by duxbuz View Post
    I would presure that I would be aiming for raid 1+0 then on the DL380.

    Shame I will lose lots of space, but then i will just have to move stuff about.

    Why is it best practice to have DC on physical machine?
    If the DL380 has 10k drives then RAID 1+0 may be overkill. You might get away with RAID5, it depends on what your disk IOPS requirements are.

    Having virtual DCs is no problem, but you should keep at least one physical. powdarrmonkey highlighted a few reasons, but one of the main ones is keeping a DC and probably DNS available if your virtual machines go down. Much easier to try to get things back together if you've got AD and DNS available.

    Chris

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