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Hardware Thread, SANs with block level replication? in Technical; We use the LTO3 version of these SuperLoader 3 Oh I see you've already seen that then you should be ...
  1. #16
    cookie_monster's Avatar
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    We use the LTO3 version of these SuperLoader 3

    Oh I see you've already seen that


    then you should be looking at clustering your servers so that if one fails there is a complete reserve waiting to take over. Banks do this. we all do it in schools with medium sized networks (we have 3DC's, 4DNS here)
    We do???

    I've never had even close to the budget for that kind of setup, we have next bussiness day (sometimes 4 hour) cover on the servers and a setup that allows us to keep the admin system running with a couple of hours fiddling. We have RAID, redundant PSU's, D2D2T and UPS but not entire redundant servers.
    Last edited by cookie_monster; 17th November 2009 at 08:32 AM.

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    I wouldn't say we have completely redundant servers, in the sense that Exchange and SQL aren't configured in clusters. However, for services like DNS and DCs, we also have multiple servers. This is as much for load balancing as redundancy.

    I'll also recommend the Sun S7000 storage platform. We have a 7410 and are looking at clustering two 7410 heads then replicating to a 7310 eventually. As others have said, they do replication and de-duplication is also on the roadmap which will reduce your storage requirements when it's available.

    I must confess to only scanning this thread, but I'd agree with what Tallwood_6 regarding getting a higher-level version of vSphere to take advantage of vMotion and HA. These are some of the main reasons for going the virtualisation and centralised storage route if redundancy and improved availability are your aims.

    As far as backup goes, if you were doing snapshots and replicating them to elsewhere on-site then that's kind of a backup solution. However, the best option would probably be D2D2T as others have said, maybe using NDMP to directly do the D2T bit? Depending on what your servers are doing, you may likely also want something that does file-level backups and has agents on the servers, particularly for services like Exchange and SQL where you don't necessarily want to restore a complete server, just a particular mailbox or one database from a specific time. Backup Exec will do this for you, as will several other products.

    As cookie_monster says, most of us probably don't have anywhere near the disaster recovery plans we'd like, and that like goes for SMBs as well as schools. Virtualisation and decent consolidated storage will resolve a lot of your problems, but only if it's done right.

    Chris

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mindflux View Post
    How does your tape drive hook up to the network/server? I see some are SAS, some are SCSI.

    Do you hook the external SAS/SCSI to a server or the SAN? If it's the server that could prove problematic as I'm running VMWare ESXi and the guests don't have direct access to host hardware.

    If you hook it to the SAN, I'm assuming you need to use a SAN compatible with the autoloader (I'm eyeing a Quantum Superloader 3?).
    We have servers with agents running on them (software), which connect over IP to our backup server. The backup server is a NAS with 4TB of storage and has the tape drive connected directly to it by SCSI.

    So if you were using SAN's you could connect via iSCSI, then you would also need an actual host for the D2D2T parts. Idaelly you would want the to tape part somewhere easily accessible on a seperate machine to your VM enviroment.

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    mjs_mjs's Avatar
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    We do???

    I've never had even close to the budget for that kind of setup, we have next bussiness day (sometimes 4 hour) cover on the servers and a setup that allows us to keep the admin system running with a couple of hours fiddling. We have RAID, redundant PSU's, D2D2T and UPS but not entire redundant servers.[/QUOTE]


    I meant 'we' for AD and DNS are redundant. Sorry for the confusion.

    We dont have the budget for fully redundant servers ither.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallwood_6 View Post
    We have a storage server running 2003 storage server which has backup exc 12.5 you install either the normal backup exc agents on your virtual servers (they dont know they are virtual) or if you like some of the VM agents. The Quantum autoloader then connects straight into the storage server via SCSI and is very quick. would highly reccommmend LTO 4 comming from AIT 3 & 4, its much quicker and proving much more reliable and should provide you with plenty of capacity for future growth.
    we're looking at moving to LTO, but have inheritited the ATI autoloader and it's ok for now, even tho the tapes are expensive.

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    cookie_monster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjs_mjs View Post
    We do???

    I've never had even close to the budget for that kind of setup, we have next bussiness day (sometimes 4 hour) cover on the servers and a setup that allows us to keep the admin system running with a couple of hours fiddling. We have RAID, redundant PSU's, D2D2T and UPS but not entire redundant servers.

    I meant 'we' for AD and DNS are redundant. Sorry for the confusion.

    We dont have the budget for fully redundant servers ither.


    Ah ok, yes multiple DNS/DC's is very good practice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallwood_6 View Post
    We have a storage server running 2003 storage server which has backup exc 12.5 you install either the normal backup exc agents on your virtual servers (they dont know they are virtual) or if you like some of the VM agents. The Quantum autoloader then connects straight into the storage server via SCSI and is very quick. would highly reccommmend LTO 4 comming from AIT 3 & 4, its much quicker and proving much more reliable and should provide you with plenty of capacity for future growth.

    Yeah I was looking at LTO 4 tapes Thanks for the recommendations.

    So, even though the SuperLoader has an interface for SAS or SCSI (not iSCSI), you don't have to use it for the backup server? I figured the LAN cable on the SuperLoader was just maybe for management and you had to pull all the data down to the device via SAS or SCSI connectivity. (Though that might be ideal since it would be faster than using Gigabit ethernet.

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    Our Quantum is connected to our backup exec media server using SCSI and backs up our servers and VMs via remote agents at the moment. As you say the LAN is for management.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cookie_monster View Post
    Our Quantum is connected to our backup exec media server using SCSI and backs up our servers and VMs via remote agents at the moment. As you say the LAN is for management.
    Ok, hrm that puts a twist on things.

    If I wanted to do D2D2T and had a superloader 3...

    I can't just go Server -> SAN (there's my D2D) -> Tape? I guess if the SAN had an os that supported the tape agent and the SAS/SCSI protocol I could.. otherwise I need an intermediate server for this configuration?

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    Well there's lots of options here really. You can have jobs that run to disk somewhere then back that store up to tape. The Sun 7110 and others support NDMP so you could use a compatible agent to backup the SAN directly. Some people on here are backing up CIFS shares on the 7110 SAN using Backup Exec but I think that's problematic at the moment.

    If like you say your SAN had a supported agent then you could run a job to backup the SAN to disk then backup to tape from there. We currently just run a backup straight to tape as it doesn't take more than a night to do.

  11. Thanks to cookie_monster from:

    Mindflux (17th November 2009)

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    Quote Originally Posted by cookie_monster View Post
    If like you say your SAN had a supported agent then you could run a job to backup the SAN to disk then backup to tape from there. We currently just run a backup straight to tape as it doesn't take more than a night to do.
    Yeah that's part of the problem, since my servers are virtualized even if I put in a SAS/SCSI controller none of the guests would have direct access to and ESXi 4 doesn't allow for services to be installed. Our backups wouldn't take more than a night (I don't imagine).. so I don't have a problem backing up directly off the SAN if possible.
    Last edited by Mindflux; 17th November 2009 at 02:59 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mindflux View Post
    Yeah that's part of the problem, since my servers are virtualized even if I put in a SAS/SCSI controller none of the guests would have direct access to and ESXi 4 doesn't allow for services to be installed. Our backups wouldn't take more than a night (I don't imagine).. so I don't have a problem backing up directly off the SAN if possible.
    how were you planning to backup to tape without having an OS that can see a tape drive?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mjs_mjs View Post
    how were you planning to backup to tape without having an OS that can see a tape drive?

    Well my OP doesn't even put tape in the equation, it wasn't until someone brought up some stuff I hadn't considered. So, I do not rightfully know.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mjs_mjs View Post
    how were you planning to backup to tape without having an OS that can see a tape drive?
    NDMP is designed to backup a SAN/NAS to tape without the need to go through a Backup Server. The S7000 has NDMP support and I imagine there are certain tape drives/autoloaders/libraries that will be supported. I have never used this and honestly don't know how it works in reality, but I believe you can remotely manage backups that go directly from the S7000 to the tape drive. If you go to the NDMP section on the S7000 BUI it will show the devices that are connected to it.

    In short, the OS can see tape drives, but personally I don't know how you go about setting it up!

    Chris

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    Have a look at the Open-E DSS software.

    A whitepaper on block level replication for you too:

    http://www.open-e.com/site_media/dow...over_a_LAN.pdf

    Ben

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