Poll: Do you have a printer capable of printing A3-folded-to-A4 saddle-stitched books?

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Hardware Thread, How many schools have printers that can print textbooks? in Technical; Originally Posted by localzuk One of the advantages of traditional textbooks is that they last quite some time. It's their ...
  1. #16

    dhicks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    One of the advantages of traditional textbooks is that they last quite some time.
    It's their disadvantage, too - content can't be updated. However, there's nothing to stop people printing on decent paper instead of standard A4 copier paper, and a decent cover made from 200gsm paper should go some way to making a booklet that will last a reasonable time.

    Quote Originally Posted by pete
    We have a photocopier with the functionality that can/could be networked, but given that it's in near-constant use most of the day for photocopying duties, giving people the option to print to it may lead to blood on the walls.
    That's just a logistics thing, though. Actually, that would be kind of the idea in print-your-own textbooks in the first place - decent up-to-date content that can be prepared ready for the coming half term, no need to supplement your textbooks with a wodge of extra photocopied sheets. What is it they're photocopying so much of, out of interest?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cools
    It will spend more time broken then working.. and Tech support will be out on site 95% of the time..
    Get a printer / support contract that more appropriate to the volume of stuff being printed. Our current colour photocopier is stuggling somewhat under a workload it was never designed for, but a new device should be able to handle our current print volume easily.

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  2. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by dhicks View Post
    It's their disadvantage, too - content can't be updated. However, there's nothing to stop people printing on decent paper instead of standard A4 copier paper, and a decent cover made from 200gsm paper should go some way to making a booklet that will last a reasonable time.
    Not many copiers that I know of can fold card as heavy as that. And adding different types of paper, heavy card etc... will increase the price too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    Not many copiers that I know of can fold card as heavy as that. And adding different types of paper, heavy card etc... will increase the price too.
    How's about a dust cover type of arragement, with the first and last pages of the folded and stapled A4 booklet sliding in to the covers of a dust sleeve, like you get with hardback books? Anyone know where you can get such things from?

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    Quote Originally Posted by dhicks View Post
    How's about a dust cover type of arragement, with the first and last pages of the folded and stapled A4 booklet sliding in to the covers of a dust sleeve, like you get with hardback books? Anyone know where you can get such things from?

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    The person to ask on those would be your librarian.

  5. Thanks to localzuk from:

    dhicks (18th June 2009)

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    It's an interesting question but I think you'd be better off looking at whether it would be smarter to look at this as a slightly different opportunity.

    The sort of document you're likely to get out of a copier is going to be thin, slightly scrappy and as a result highly likely to be treated in the same way that worksheets are invariably handled... ie: one use, chuck..

    If you're going to get the kids to even stand a remote chance of respecting the materials you're going to need a pretty sturdy cover and back to protect it from being shoved in and out of bags, battered with PE kit and lord knows what else.

    Why not consider something that will print, collate and staple but go a stage further and work out the cost, implications of purchasing the necessary binding equipment that will provide the sort of finished product that might get used.

    I'll wager if you were to look at this as an opportunity for students and/or staff to earn a little extra part time cash during the holidays and term time you might find you could setup a little shop. Add to that, you could cast around to other schools and see if there's a market for the same materials with a modest profit margin.

    Just a thought but I think there's a false economy potential here if you just consider the printed/stapled product on the same level and quality as a text book.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dhicks View Post
    Actually, that would be kind of the idea in print-your-own textbooks in the first place - decent up-to-date content that can be prepared ready for the coming half term, no need to supplement your textbooks with a wodge of extra photocopied sheets. What is it they're photocopying so much of, out of interest?
    Honestly no idea - probably handouts for lessons being done by admin staff who run large batches at once. Photocopiers are not my domain and I like it that way.

    Can I swap some of your teachers who plan things sufficiently in advance to be able to create textbooks with some of ours?

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    With online learning / device per pupil / VLEs increasing in both popularity and use, I wonder if you're coming at this from the wrong angle. Instead of working out cheaper ways to print and bind textbooks, why not look at ways to digitise them? Take the new AQA Science course, for example - that comes with a "textbook on CD" application, ActiveBook or something like that.

    Copyright issues will of course dictate/limit/prevent how this happens, but that's a separate topic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by contink View Post
    Why not consider something that will print, collate and staple but go a stage further and work out the cost, implications of purchasing the necessary binding equipment that will provide the sort of finished product that might get used.
    Good idea. I reckon it should be perfectly possible to make a "bound" textbook via the method I suggested above - a basic cardboard sleeve that the first and last pages of a stapled booklet slide into, like a hardback book's dust jacket. A squirt of fixant or some peel-and-stick stuff on the inside of the covers might help make it a bit more permenant, too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NickJones View Post
    With online learning / device per pupil / VLEs increasing in both popularity and use, I wonder if you're coming at this from the wrong angle.
    Actually, this whole conversation was from a thread over on the TES forums yesterday:

    Doing away with textbooks one day? - ICT - TES Connect

    The point made there was that printed text is easier for children to read, more convieniant than current computer technology. Yes, in some vaugly distant future I'm sure we will all have Minority Report-style interfaces built in to our eyeballs, but that's still a little way away. Print-on-demand textbooks seems to me like a reasonable bridge between the old-fashioned, fixed-size printed book and the bright, shiny future of all-pervasive, hands-free computer interfaces.

    Take the new AQA Science course, for example - that comes with a "textbook on CD" application, ActiveBook or something like that.
    Proper interactive content is based on open standards for integration with a VLE or similar system and is designed around sound educational prinicples, i.e. it uses interactivity and multimedia to enhance learning, not just because it impresses teachers/management/parents or momentarily distracts pupils from bisbehaving. Too much "interactive" content is still re-purposed print material shoe-horned into a web browser or some dodgy propriatory "player" system with some animations and quizzes added.

    Copyright issues will of course dictate/limit/prevent how this happens, but that's a separate topic.
    But it's a serious consideration. The photocopier sales people seemed surpised that no, really, we weren't simply going to scan and make multiple copies of our exisiting textbooks. Content either has a nice, clear, understandable set of useage rights with it or we don't use it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NickJones View Post
    With online learning / device per pupil / VLEs increasing in both popularity and use, I wonder if you're coming at this from the wrong angle. Instead of working out cheaper ways to print and bind textbooks, why not look at ways to digitise them? Take the new AQA Science course, for example - that comes with a "textbook on CD" application, ActiveBook or something like that.

    Copyright issues will of course dictate/limit/prevent how this happens, but that's a separate topic.
    Because you would still end upo with students trying to print it on the lasers because they hate reading it on the screen like i do.

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    enjay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dhicks View Post
    Too much "interactive" content is still re-purposed print material shoe-horned into a web browser
    These ones aren't actually too bad for interactivity-overload, as they just look like the text book - additional media content is available from a side bar menu.

    Quote Originally Posted by dhicks View Post
    some dodgy propriatory "player" system
    That is more the issue with this - as we take the other departments into an access-from-anywhere Learning Platform of some form, Science's uberly-expensive 'needed for every lesson' applications most likely won't be available remotely.

    It's a shame that they bought it, partly for the on-screen content, but didn't speak to me about it until it was a done deal. I've told the HoD that, had she bought this through the correct channels, I would have refused it (it also needs flash and java installing on the server, and is a huge resources drain) but she simply said not getting it "wasn't an option".

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    Quote Originally Posted by p858snake View Post
    Because you would still end upo with students trying to print it on the lasers because they hate reading it on the screen like i do.
    Then let them, at their expense, print a few pages as needed rather than print the whole shooting match for them. Some kids will be happy with on-screen, after all.

    To be honest, I think (in general) children are much happier to read stuff on screen than Oldies like us are :-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by NickJones View Post
    Then let them, at their expense, print a few pages as needed rather than print the whole shooting match for them. Some kids will be happy with on-screen, after all.

    To be honest, I think (in general) children are much happier to read stuff on screen than Oldies like us are :-)
    I'm not /that/ old, i only finished HS last year :sadpanda:

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    Me either - early 30s for me, so not really old by anyone's measure except the students of course!

    I still reckon that comfort with on-screen reading is fairly common among children, but less so among adults (there will of course be exceptions in both camps), presumably due to relative exposure; 'kids today' do spend much more time staring at screens than I did at their age, and certainly a lot more than older teachers would have done when teenaged.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NickJones View Post
    Me either - early 30s for me, so not really old by anyone's measure except the students of course!

    I still reckon that comfort with on-screen reading is fairly common among children, but less so among adults (there will of course be exceptions in both camps), presumably due to relative exposure; 'kids today' do spend much more time staring at screens than I did at their age, and certainly a lot more than older teachers would have done when teenaged.
    I'd question just how much attention is being paid though. Children have lower attention spans, are easier to distract and the style of writing needs to reflect that.

    Maybe I'm just old but anything over X amount of text and it's printed off to read properly.. Screen reading is just not the same.

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