FUJITSU SIEMENS ALERT!!!

[jimbopem]

I would be interested to know if any of my esteemed colleagues have encountered the following problem...................
When connected via USB, the Esprimo 2520 loses its connection to a Smartboard after a few minutes, and then requires a reboot.

We supplied 11 of these units to a primary school several months ago (and to others!!!), and they have now decided to use them all front of class and connected to smartboards.
It took quite a while of troubleshooting before we contacted Warranty Support, who diagnosed that the PSU spec is too low to run a smartboard. Needless to say, given that these units are actively marketed via distribution to this sector (words from FSC as well as me) I was rather bemused that these models are not suitable for running a usb smartboard. I have never come across this problem since smartboard started supplying USB connectors with their boards.

FSC's position is that they are not broken, so there is nothing they are willing to do about it (see copy of emails below and letter to distribution in attachment).
At the end of the day I accept that, as a consultant we are responsible for the advice we give, therefore my advice is (not that you need it ) to do your research, because the manufacturers won't bail you out.

Has anyone had a similar problems with any other make/model? I would be interested to know which budget business makes/models at this price point can be recommended.

In the meantime it looks like I will be supplying a large number of powered USB adapters FOC!!

Thanks
Jim Pemberton
Managing Director, ICT In Education Limited

Please note I have e-mailed this link to those concerned so that they have the opportunity to make comments if they so wish.

Here's the email reply from FSC.........
(From me to Mark Vatcher at Fujitsu Siemens as a reply to his email to me)

Hello Mark

I am disappointed that you are unable to offer further support on this issue. As I explained in the letter I am not claiming that the computers are inherently faulty within the terms of the warranty agreement.
My interest is in the first instance, looking after the interests of my customer, and secondly ensuring that we as a consultancy are providing all our customers with the correct advice.
I considered that you would wish to have the opportunity to retain your position within the education sector viz manufacturing low-cost "fit for purpose" systems. If, given what you are saying, the P2520 is not suitable for running a smartboard, then I would suggest you notify through the channel of this issue.
My position is to offer a "fit for purpose" low cost system that I can recommend to my customers. I do not know of any problems with low end business units that other manufacturers are offering at the P5250 price-point. However, I will share this information within the education support community with a view to establishing a competent alternative.

At this point I will be withdrawing our affiliation with Fujitsu Siemens


Regards

Jim Pemberton




On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 12:52 PM, Vatcher, Mark <Mark.Vatcher@fujitsu-siemens.com> wrote:

Jim/Andy,

Looking at the letter and after receiving advice from both our Support teams and Product Operations in Germany, this is not a warranty issue.

The ESPRIMOs here were replacing SCENIC P300, but according to 2nd Line engineering, the ESPRIMO P2520 does not have the same power reserves as the SCENIC Ps and are therefore not capable of suppporting the Smartboards in the same way that the SCENICs could. The ESPRIMOs are NOT faulty, simply different from the SCENIC Ps. The ESPRIMO P2520 is an entry level system whereas the entry level SCENIC model was the SCENIC X. The SCENIC P300 was one of the Business Plus models as per the ESPRIMO P5730/P7935 today.

Unfortunately the PC sold to this customer, comes with 210W PSU which from your letter is not enough for the mentioned smartboard. This smartboard is also not tested and qualified from our side.The only way to be sure the unit can support the smartboard would be to test this accessory in combination with this system in advance or to read the datasheet with the PSU information and compare it to the requirements of the device recommended by the smartboard.

This is an unfortunate situation, but seeing these units are not faulty, I am unable to offer any further support.

Regards


Mark Vatcher
Account Director
Fujitsu Siemens Computers Limited
FSC Campus,
The Boulevard,
Cain Road,
Bracknell,
Berkshire
RG12 1HH

[localzuk]

I thought that the power specifications of USB were set as a standard? Universal Serial Bus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So, there are a couple of questions...

1. What are the requirements of the smartboards? the maximum under the spec is 500mA at 5V.
2. Were the machines labelled as being USB2 compliant?
3. If the first question reveals that Smartboards are not compliant with USB2 specifications, are they marketted as such?

[Tallwood_6]

I wouldnt have thought that the Fujitsu Siemens will be the only machines that encounter this problem, i know some Mac's have had problems properly powering devices over usb.

[localzuk]

Right, an answer to question 1 (and 3):

The power requirements for a smartboard are 300mA at 5V. This is well within the USB2 specifications.

An answer to question 2:

The Esprimo 2520 is marketted as having 8 USB2.0 ports, according to the F-S website.

This means that the computer is not compliant with the specification for USB2. and therefore, in my opinion, is actually in breach of the trade descriptions act, as it in effect is rendering the units not fit for purpose.

I would continue to pursue this issue with them if I were you, as they have misled you!

[AngryTechnician]

They certainly are set as standard, but my own experience as a hardware tester for a USB-IDE bridge chipset manufacturer tells me that an awful lot of USB chipsets do not follow the standards properly. We used a ridiculously expensive protocol analyser from LeCroy (then called CATC) that was amazing at dissecting exactly what was going on over the bus, and it was astounding how many products cut corners in their protocol implementations.

A lot of the time it's quite subtle and they get away with it, but this sounds like it is not one of those times.

[localzuk]

They certainly are set as standard, but my own experience as a hardware tester for a USB-IDE bridge chipset manufacturer tells me that an awful lot of USB chipsets do not follow the standards properly. We used a ridiculously expensive protocol analyser from LeCroy (then called CATC) that was amazing at dissecting exactly what was going on over the bus, and it was astounding how many products cut corners in their protocol implementations.

Which, under UK law, means they are acting illegally if they market those products as USB2.0 compliant.

[Michael]

I thought USB specifications were standard also and I still believe this is the case, otherwise USB wouldn't be so universal after all...

To be honest I don't personally believe it is a PSU issue. Many laptops don't have 200w PSUs yet come complete with 4 or more USB ports these days. I think the easiest solution is to supply/install a PCI USB 2.0 card or alternatively, a powered USB hub but this can look messy.

[SimpleSi]

Hi Jim

I think the easiest solution is to supply/install a PCI USB 2.0 card or alternatively, a powered USB hub but this can look messy.

And then if it works - I think you proved its their tatty computer and gets you out of current hole (but you've prob already done this ).

If you'd like to pass on that another person (me) who has used FJs since starting off in the job and is effectively purchasing manager for 8 schools will no longer be buying them until you've received a better response (e.g one starting with sorry and ending with a solution ) as if they can't be relied on to run a Smartboard then they're not suitable for education use.

Many times, a class machine is moved into service as a replacement for a teacher laptop - I can more forgive a laptop for not working with a Smartboard than a desktop!

On the other hand, I'd try one of them out at another school with another smartboard thats working with a desktop just to make sure Smart haven't done anything daft either (And I'll wager money that they'll never admit to it being their fault )

So, I wonder if people could recommend an alternative low cost desktop machine that does work with Smartboards for my next suite rolllout

regards

Simon

[TechSupp]

I know it may be a simple solution, but might it not be that the power saving for the USB in Device Manager needs turning off? I do this for any whiteboard PC and we are running all Fujitsu at one school even those mentioned I'm sure (not at work so can't check).

[SimpleSi]

but might it not be that the power saving for the USB in Device Manager needs turning off? I do this for any whiteboard PC

There's good and bad sides to this

1. Nice to know that there is setting that needs checking

2. Bad to find out that such a setting even exists and needs checking

regards

Simon

[PeterW]

Unfortunately the PC sold to this customer, comes with 210W PSU which from your letter is not enough for the mentioned smartboard.

LOL a 210W psu can not run a 5v 500mA USB port, awesome.

Does it work ok with the ports set to USB 1.1 in the bios?

Have you also tried all variations of these settings as detailed in the BIOS manual?

USB Ports
Configures USB ports according to device classes. Any disabled USB ports are
also not available under the operating system.
Disable Unused Ports All unused USB ports are disabled.
Disable Storage And HUB All ports with Mass Storage Devices and HUBs are disabled.
Keyboard And Mouse Only Only the ports with the keyboard and mouse are enabled.
Enable all All USB ports are enabled.

Are you able to find any smaller powered USB devices (scanner perhaps?) that also shows the issue, if so you could then send said item to FSC so that they can see the issue and hopefully fix it.

[jimbopem]

We haven't made any changes to USB settings in BIOS but will give it a go next time we are in and report on it. Yes Si, in any event FSC's response is, IMO, very disappointing to say the least. Think I will be talking to Lenovo.

[jimbopem]

P.S. beware the V5535 laptops - 1hr max normal wireless useage

[Red_Barchetta]

I know it may be a simple solution, but might it not be that the power saving for the USB in Device Manager needs turning off? I do this for any whiteboard PC and we are running all Fujitsu at one school even those mentioned I'm sure (not at work so can't check).

Have had a similar problem with the power saving on USB stopping the keyboard/mouse bringing a machine out of power save. I turn it off bby default when setting any machine up now.

[TechSupp]

Yes I know it seems daft when its a desktop thats plugged in to the mains but I suppose its a catch all version for windows. Would have been better to have it turned of by default at install and only turn it on when yop initiate power saving generally i.e. when its installed on a laptop etc. First came across this a while ago when a teacher was complaining about having to shut down her laptop intermittently to re connect her printer to it. Turned usb power saving off and hey presto problem solved. Had it when connecting to a whiteboard before as well.