Hardware Thread, Whole room for £4500 - possible? in Technical; ...
16th December 2008, 12:56 PM #31
Although we haven't decided anything yet, the chances are we would soon look to sell them around £40-£50 each (hardware only). They run XP fine and as dhicks said can be made to look better (and perform a bit better) for very minimum cost, yet we just don't require them anymore.
Seems wrong that we have these computers wasting away and you're struggling desperately to get your hands on anything!
16th December 2008, 01:47 PM #32
Check eBay to get an idea of the going rate for a refurbished machine complete with Windows XP Pro license - seems to be about £50 all-in with postage, so probably a bit less than that is fair if someone's going to come and pick them up.
Originally Posted by DaveSmith
This will take a bit more by way of effort than thin-client, mind - you'll have to get the machines, haul them into your computer room, upgrade the RAM, get Windows XP reinstalled on all of them (you can't copy one image around unless you have a bulk license agreement), install your software, etc.
16th December 2008, 05:54 PM #33
For me, Thin Client is like Marmite, and I don't like marmite (but this isn't me who is in this situation)!
Even if I were, i'd still look for proper 2nd user machines and get them built properly - I personally don't see what all the hype with thin client is all about! The figure I put before was just a guesstimate; I hadn't done any research on that and obviously we would do before a decision like that would be made. Anything is better than the nothing we have always got in the past!
Maybe there are local schools who have surplus stock lying around that is half-reasonable?
16th December 2008, 06:08 PM #34
Depends on exactly what you're going to use them for. Saying that, dedicated thin client machines are getting to be a silly price - like, more than a netbook, which seems silly. Which is a good point - could just buy 22 netbooks at £200 each? Clear all the PCs out, cable tie a couple of network cables and power cables to each desk, then just have the netbooks themselves in a filing cabinet ready to be dished out when a class comes in.
Originally Posted by DaveSmith
16th December 2008, 06:14 PM #35
a valid point TC computers are becoming very powerful, we recently bought 1.6GHz Intel Atom motherboards (£45) as thin client, with 2GB Ram (£15), with a case and monitor they are just over £200 each - but can happily run XP if we add a hard disk to them. We are still using them as TC though, the extra admin work required with XP puts the support costs up.
dedicated thin client machines are getting to be a silly price - like, more than a netbook, which seems silly. Which is a good point - could just buy 22 netbooks at £200 each?
16th December 2008, 06:16 PM #36
The whole point about thin client computing is to provide a SUSTAINABLE computing model.
Originally Posted by DaveSmith
I have 400 client devices. Not all of these need to be capable of 3D modelling or music composition. It would be a waste of money and a nightmare to maintain. Instead, I use cheap thin clients (with a 10 year lifespan rather than 3 year life) where I can and this leaves me money to buy better computers for the specialist jobs and reduces the management overhead on a site with 7 buildings.
I'm not saying that thin clients are for everyone... it just annoys me when I see people dismissing technologies (this includes virtualisation, alternative OSs, open source software, etc.) just because they don't fully understand them or they fear change.
</rant on sustainability>
17th December 2008, 08:09 AM #37
amen to that! (though i will dismiss alternative OS's in a school environment )
Originally Posted by Ric_
17th December 2008, 08:16 AM #38
Yep the reason I have gone from 0 - 100 thin clients in a year is because of sustainability. We simply cant afford to keep 300+ fat clients up and running in the long term - our budget goes down every year not up! Thin clients are one answer for us. Virtualisation is another, if we can get our 9 servers virtualised down to three we can save over £1k a year just on electricity costs alone!
New technology is great
17th December 2008, 08:41 AM #39
We've currently got 23 virtualised servers on 3 physical boxes, 50-75 thin clients spread over 2 terminal servers, 4.5TB total network storage and about 400-450 other regular client machines
Theres a nice display of technology here ranging from new to old haven't got much open source stuff in use here though come to think of it
17th December 2008, 09:19 AM #40
Where the hell do you go shopping for licensing... education should be ALOT cheaper!
Originally Posted by dhicks
17th December 2008, 09:20 AM #41
old kit ?
i think the sound of second hand kit might be a good idea, one word of warning though, make sure you vacuum clean the cpu fans before you put them in, and try to make sure all the workstations are the same, or at least have the same ACPI so that images will all work.
there are lots of good quality p4 machines around 2nd hand, it seems that lots of places, especially those run by profit making companies, have managed to trick organisations into believing that desktops are ' worn out' etc after 3 years which is utter nonsense. I believe desktops are good for 5 to 10 years, and if you upgrade them yourself initial costs of outlay will be much less next time upgrades are due.
The '3 years and bin it' philosophy has come about because of poorly advised organisations suffering at the hands of profit greedy companies. the only equipment that needs replacing after 3 years is inferior quality stuff anyway, such as laptops, umpc's, pda's etc ( 12 months for pda's/phones if you are lucky.)
The humble desktop instead of rightfully winning the place of 'supreme' computer has been classed with all the other cr@p, and this is wholly wrong.
so go ahead and buy second hand - full size ATX desktops, ( slim ones tend to run hotter ), and then you can simply order spares from anywhere to fit them, thus freeing you up from the nightmare of maintaining, warrantying, troubleshooting the utter rubish that has infested itself into our educational establishments, by poor advice, and 'gadget greedy' individuals who have no business interfering, and needlessly wasting tax payers money !
right, i'm off to fight the ' campaign for real computers ' ( bit like the real ale one, but members are generally more slim and geeky )
17th December 2008, 09:40 AM #42
2nd hand machines are a good way to go as been stated. We managed to get some from a company 2 years ago and havent looked back since. The PC's were 2 years old then, and they have been running like a dream here, but we dont have the problem of kids abusing them terribly anymore.
17th December 2008, 09:52 AM #43
Originally Posted by dhicks
Sorry, TS CALS, even - so that's £100 (ish) for Windows Server and £20 (ish) per workstation for device and TS CALS. Technically for 6 workstations that's £220 (ish) - maybe better round up to £250. Note that NComputing's system has no actual use whatsoever for Terminal Services, you just need to buy the licenses. You could, of course, simply use Edubuntu and quit with all the messing around with licensing. Intriguingly, I was listening to a podcast from Ubuntu Live 2007 last night and NComputing was listed as one of the commercial sponsors - I hope to see a running system at BETT, see justhow good support for Ubuntu is.
Originally Posted by matt40k
17th December 2008, 09:59 AM #44
- Rep Power
We purchased 50 re-cond HP p4 530s 1gb 80hdd last summer, they came with XP Pro Liences, monitors, k/b & mouse. For about £180 each. + 1year warrenty.
They delivered and installed them free of charge.
Last edited by itman; 17th December 2008 at 10:01 AM.
17th December 2008, 10:04 AM #45
Assuming this chap's on a really low budget, image compatibility won't be any use - you only have the OEM licensed copy of Windows for each machine unless you pay (£40?) per machine for a volume license upgrade. Again, could simply use Edubuntu instead and solve that problem.
Originally Posted by farmerste
I have the vague idea that's it's something to do with tax - a company can write off capital expenditure such as the purchase of IT equipment against their tax returns for 3 years, i.e. they can spend the money as tax or purchase new IT equipment with it. Hey, their waste is our gain :-)
it seems that lots of places, especially those run by profit making companies, have managed to trick organisations into believing that desktops are ' worn out' etc after 3 years which is utter nonsense.
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