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Hardware Thread, Softxpand Miniframe in Technical; Ayup Dave, SoftXpand currently supports Windows Server 2003 and SoftXpand 3 will support Windows 7 and Windows 2008. You're bang ...
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    Ayup Dave, SoftXpand currently supports Windows Server 2003 and SoftXpand 3 will support Windows 7 and Windows 2008. You're bang on the money about it clarifying the liecnsing, I cannot argue with that, whereas the Windows XP licensing is open to debate.

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    Dave Hicks! Once again the voice of reason! SoftXpand currently supports Server 2003, but only SoftXpand 3 which is 64 bit compatible will run ON Server 2008. SoftXpand 3 will be released in the next 2 weeks. But it is a desktop OS application by rights.

  3. Thanks to verygreenpc from:

    tmcd35 (1st July 2009)

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    Quote Originally Posted by dhicks View Post
    But if Miniframe could be got to work with Server 2003 / 2008 then you could simply buy the appropriate number of device CALs and be done with it?

    --
    David Hicks
    Thinking about it I do see the potential issues.

    A CAL gets you access to a defined set of resources on windows server, and one of the things you don't get is a desktop session, unless you license terminal server. I don't think server on it's own really covers it.

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    And this, for me, is the key difference between nComputing and SoftXpand.

    SoftXpand - next release, within 2 weeks, is 64bit Win7/2008 compatible
    nComputing - will work with 2003/XP SP3 if you pray to the right gods other whys stick with XP SP2 and remove updates KB968537, KB956572 and KB954211.

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    DMcCoy this is actually what my techies told me too. I can't say that it's been pulled to bits on server 2003 but a concern was that you'd only need a 2 user SoftXpand license and then opening up terminal server with RDP would provide as many desktop sessions as you wanted (we know because a little school in Derbyshireland did it with their Asus eeePCs)! They then went on to mention that license wise it's still not black or white but that if you wanted the full desktop functionality you'd have to kind of contravene the licensing and you'd need a fat client still to cope with the multimedia. Terry you know the overlords from NC are on this board right!? Love it, comment of the day! It certainly took me away from the "why won't it work on RM CC3?" which is all I've heard all day. Is it true that when you take RM you transcend and become RM?

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    Aero engine and SoftXpand

    Quote Originally Posted by miniframeuk View Post
    Dave Hicks! Once again the voice of reason! SoftXpand currently supports Server 2003, but only SoftXpand 3 which is 64 bit compatible will run ON Server 2008. SoftXpand 3 will be released in the next 2 weeks. But it is a desktop OS application by rights.
    A question for miniframeUK :
    I know that Windows 7 (and Vista ofcourse) uses the Aero display engine which is very
    "heavy" and "neady" so it demands a propierty GPU for each instance.
    Will SoftXpand 3 be able to manage with this demand and still use one VGA Card with 2
    outputs (VGA+DVI) for two stations as it does today ?

    Dr. jivago

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    tmcd35's Avatar
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    I know Vista and 7 of load GUI features to the GPU to improve performance, but is it really that intensive?

    The simple answer would be to buy a faster graphics card, no?

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    Quote Originally Posted by tmcd35 View Post
    I know Vista and 7 of load GUI features to the GPU to improve performance, but is it really that intensive?

    The simple answer would be to buy a faster graphics card, no?
    Unforunatly no.

    I know it for sure, as I'm a costumer of BeTwin (Remote Access Windows Vista, Remote Access Windows Server, Remote Access Windows XP, Remote Access Software, Remote Acess Server, PC Sharing, Linux RDP Client, RDP Client, Thin Client, Linux Thin Client, Thin Client Software, WinConnect, BeTwin, WinC).
    When I saw your conversations with miniframeUK, and I've look at all of them,
    I had only one thing on my mind : what is the big news over here ???

    I've been using BeTwin since it was for Windows 98 (10 years ago) and was a hardware solution.
    Today ThinSoft have BeTwin, which is a software-only solution, and working on 2000/XP (Home
    and Professional) 32 bit. Half a year ago they have launched their Windows Vista 64bits\ Server 2008 (BeTwin VS 32\64 bit) and in a month they'll release the Windows 7 version.

    The only problem with the Vista version, and probably with 7 also, is that you can't use a single
    VGA card for 2 stations, and you'll need a card for each station.

    Dr. jivago

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    On the XP version the simple answer would be to up the quality of the graphics card (if necessary). HOWEVER the honest answer for Windows 7 is that we cannot share certain information BUT I can guarantee we're not going down the proprietory hardware route nor do we intend to shoehorn 12 graphics cards onto a 6 user PC.

    We're of course aware of BeTwin, and would have begun distributing WinConnect Server XP etc were it not for some serious limitations that made it unsaleable in the UK - I'm not sure about it being around prior to SoftXpand though? Why not put it to the forum for an unbiaised comparison, and why not for your own peace of mind (as you understand the multiseat concept) download a free trial of SoftXpand and give us your feedback. I've just checked the BeTwin site and they also have a free trial download for all edugeekers

    For us the BeTwin range is taking the thin client route and using RDP almost like todays "gotomyPC" or "logmein" and is a fantastic product, but not what we're trying to achieve. We focus on the ecological side of the equation, adding in the best possible trade off of price v performance and think we've found the right balance.

    Clearly we have a competetive analysis done but wouldn't be so silly as to list the faults of the BeTwin product range here. (although as an employee I'm so close to pulling the trigger here!)

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    Quote Originally Posted by DMcCoy View Post
    A CAL gets you access to a defined set of resources on windows server, and one of the things you don't get is a desktop session, unless you license terminal server. I don't think server on it's own really covers it.
    Sorry, my mistake, I meant TS CALs, of course.

    --
    David Hicks

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    Quote Originally Posted by miniframeuk View Post
    On the XP version the simple answer would be to up the quality of the graphics card (if necessary). HOWEVER the honest answer for Windows 7 is that we cannot share certain information BUT I can guarantee we're not going down the proprietory hardware route nor do we intend to shoehorn 12 graphics cards onto a 6 user PC.

    We're of course aware of BeTwin, and would have begun distributing WinConnect Server XP etc were it not for some serious limitations that made it unsaleable in the UK - I'm not sure about it being around prior to SoftXpand though? Why not put it to the forum for an unbiaised comparison, and why not for your own peace of mind (as you understand the multiseat concept) download a free trial of SoftXpand and give us your feedback. I've just checked the BeTwin site and they also have a free trial download for all edugeekers

    For us the BeTwin range is taking the thin client route and using RDP almost like todays "gotomyPC" or "logmein" and is a fantastic product, but not what we're trying to achieve. We focus on the ecological side of the equation, adding in the best possible trade off of price v performance and think we've found the right balance.

    Clearly we have a competetive analysis done but wouldn't be so silly as to list the faults of the BeTwin product range here. (although as an employee I'm so close to pulling the trigger here!)

    I'll be happy to hear you are going to solve this problem with Windows 7, but I doubt it...
    Either you install USB display cards or it can't be done. But again, if you say you've a solution for that,
    I'll wait those 2 weeks - it worth it.

    Can you tell me the limitations of WinConnect Server XP that made it unusable in the UK ?

    And yes - it was much perior to SoftXpand. Look what I've found, a piece of history:
    Review of the Virtual PC BUDDY B-210
    This is what I've told you about - the hardware solution.

    I don't see BeTwin's stations as a RDP session. It's exactly like SoftXpand with few changes
    but with a lot more experience - Since 1997 !!!
    Can you imagin how many features would MiniFrame develope in 12 years ? For me, exprience
    means a lot.

    And as for your ecological remark, pay attention to number 2 on your list:
    http://kb.miniframe.com/kb/?View=entry&EntryID=220

    I really don't have the time to make those comparisons, this is your job to do but as a costumer,
    I can clearly recommand on BeTwin as a relaiable and good product for the past 12 years.

    Dr. jivago
    Last edited by drjivago; 1st July 2009 at 04:45 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dhicks View Post
    Sorry, my mistake, I meant TS CALs, of course.

    --
    David Hicks
    Ah, I agree then - I think TS is really the closest way you can get to the "correct" licensing, you pay for a desktop, you get a desktop. Multiple normal licenses has the same effect, although I don't know if only one could be OEM with the others being FPP.

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    Licensing with FPP would make this type of system unusable . 200+ per seat is a lot of money. Even OEM per seat is way too expensive to be worth while - 6xOEM would be about 600 for Windows on a 6 seat system.

    If the final word from M$ is one of these two for Win XP/Vista/7 then I for one would be very interested in the TS CAL route!

    My Money is still on 1xOEM + as many Volume licenses as required (ie 1 or 2 copies of Enterprise Edition).

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    Hi Guys,

    I've been talking to the MD here in the UK who is just back from Israeli Head Office. We are prepared to state that you only need 1 copy of Windows XP per system. After some dialogue between Ballmer and Segal this directive is what MiniFame will be communicating globally.

    We are happy for all you guys to persist in your attempts to have Microsoft confirm this for your own peace of mind and will make ouselves available to your reps at Microsoft to help you clarify this position to them, as on occasion they need to know the technical witchcraft behind the product to best understand the licensing implications.

    Whilst learning about TS CALs, Windows Server has been interesting I hope this puts this one to bed. 1 Copy of XP.

    Being a young wipper snapper, I was too eager to comment back on Dr Shivago's posts earlier. It is clear that BeTwin surfaced before SoftXpand. I was discussing it with my MD who explained that BeTwin was the product that everyone tried but didn't work, most likely due to technology limitations back before the millenium. We think the BeTwin concept is brilliant. However anyone who considers a screen saver to be eco friendly is a mad man no? The UK Govt are actively trying to prevent their users from enabling screen savers.

    Also, does anyone know if the Ranger Suite & RMs network management products are actually white label versions of Net Support?

    Cheers, and have a good one!
    Col

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    miniframeuk: "Also, does anyone know if the Ranger Suite & RMs network management products are actually white label versions of Net Support?"

    Yes they are, RM Tutor 3 and Ranger Remote Control are OEM's of our NetSupport School product.

    Rob

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