+ Post New Thread
Page 11 of 15 FirstFirst ... 789101112131415 LastLast
Results 151 to 165 of 215
Hardware Thread, Softxpand Miniframe in Technical; Hi Gov, Thank you for your interest in SoftXpand, "The Ultimate Green PC". SoftXpand is sold through resellers and if ...
  1. #151

    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Matlock
    Posts
    24
    Thank Post
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
    Rep Power
    0

    SoftXpand

    Hi Gov,

    Thank you for your interest in SoftXpand, "The Ultimate Green PC".

    SoftXpand is sold through resellers and if you would like to forward your contact details to me I will ask Intalect who are the reseller covering Lincolnshire to contact you with an exact quote.

    As a rough guide you should expect to pay around £3900 for an 18 user suite (3 X 6 user). This will include all keyboards, mice, usb hubs and OS licenses. No CALs are required with SoftXpand. Additionally you may require monitors if you do not have these already, and in a primary school I would recommend headphones for each student to reduce excess noise in the classroom.

    There are now a number of SoftXpand installations in Lincolnshire schools so there should be a reference site close to you.

    Regards

    Roger

  2. #152

    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Derby
    Posts
    34
    Thank Post
    45
    Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
    Rep Power
    9
    Gov should look at the GreenHive for LG Netmonitor which is correctly licensed, neat and tidy and is ideal for a primary school ICT suite; this comes with it's own desktop and classroom management software too and is backed by 3 brands, VeryPC, Microsoft, and LG. Perhaps Intalect can offer this too?

  3. #153

    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    belgium
    Posts
    2
    Thank Post
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by RogerAnscombe View Post
    Hi Ric,

    Win 7 may be more difficult than XP. We will have to work on the licensing as well as the technology just as we did with the XP version. If you interpret the XP EULA to suggest that SoftXpand is illegal then you have to admit that MS Multipoint Mouse is also illegal, but you tell me that you are already using MP Mouse. I don't want to be rude but this sounds like double standards to me or are you just satisfied that Microsoft will not sue you for using their own product? It is difficult isn't it?
    The belgian softxpand dealer has less luck: it's illegal,
    Some school has ask microsoft directlysome translated from dutch)


    Abridged description of your case: 2010052800219



    CAP REF: SRX1132205609ID QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS Problem area: Other questions Message: We consider a windows multi-user system to purchase but have doubts about the Windows licenses required.according the seller you need only a Windows 7 license for a multiuser system eg six users.See: multiseat.be/windows.fd explanation of the seller: On Windows PCs, Windows 7 multiseat Pro or Windows XP Pro installed. This multiseat systems is therefore a Windows license included, this is valid for the entire system. A multi-seat computer consists of a processor (CPU), a motherboard, a computer case, a power supply and a hard disk. This is completely valid as "customer system" in the Windows license as mentioned in point 1.a and point 5.aI. My question to you is it true that only a Windows license for the entire system, which is For example, six users simultaneously computing? Thank you for your email to Microsoft.Per using a Windows version 7 is also a Windows version 7needed.If Windows 7 editions will be used must have 6 Windows 7 editions purchased .It is possible at a Windows 7 Edition to make multiple user accounts but there can be only one at a time logged in on the Windows 7 Edition .Itis false that there is a Windows 7 Edition where 6 people can login.Thanks for your reply . ( On the site the EULA of a given system builder edition and this license as provided under the "Multi User License)

    Scenario NOT ALLOWED!

    Let this be crystal clear.



    This is putting customers in a non-compliant state.



    Also the virtual machine story doesnít fly, because it needs to be the same user accessing the virtual machines.

    If somebody wants to deliver the below scenario, it needs to be a server with RDS calls, there can be no multiplexing of Windows Client licenses.

    Never has been allowed.



    From a technological pov. A client OS isnít meant to be used in that way.

    BTW the client will block any RD (remote desktop) connection, once it supersedes 2 concurrent connections.





    And to conclude, they are also using SteadyState. This is not supported on Windows 7. In fact it will break

  4. #154

    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Matlock
    Posts
    24
    Thank Post
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
    Rep Power
    0

    SoftXpand

    I do not know who the Belgium dealer is but they seem to be confused about how SoftXpand works.
    SoftXpand works on Windows XP pro, not yet on WIndows 7 so karvijn must be confusing SoftXpand with some other technology. Also SoftXpand has nothing to do with Steady State which is a Microsoft product. Interesting that it no longer works with their own latest operating system.
    There has been a lot of call on this forum for a definitive statement form Microsoft but we all know that is unlikely to happen as the only correct answer would not be to their advantage, however I can now supply the next best thing. Andrew Miller MP is the chairman of the UK Parliament IT Committee (PITCOM) and in his official posision aproached Microsoft to get their answer which I quote below. It is interesting that Microsoft are even unsure whether one or more licenses of Office would be required. I have always suggested multiple copies if only on moral grounds.

    Quote from Andrew Miller MP
    "Some time ago I spoke to the Government Affairs officer of Microsoft and I am confident that there are no licensing issues regarding the operating system. If you have (say) 5 users on your system using 1 processor, that equals one operating system. However as there are 5 users there is an argument that there should be a 5 user licence for applications, but even that is tenuous.
    Regards,
    Andrew Miller MP"

  5. #155
    wesleyw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Kingswinford
    Posts
    2,205
    Thank Post
    223
    Thanked 50 Times in 44 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1
    Rep Power
    30
    Seeing as the cost of a CAL and an XP pro/7 license would be around £40 per user (Select Agreement) and £11 (School Agreement) does this matter much? Cost up the system then add the additional licenses and it won't be an issue anyway I'd look at softXpand as a VDI type system (on a small scale) license it as you would that.


    Wes

  6. #156

    tmcd35's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Norfolk
    Posts
    5,612
    Thank Post
    845
    Thanked 880 Times in 730 Posts
    Blog Entries
    9
    Rep Power
    326
    I'm pretty certain Microsoft advice with Multipoint Server (their version of this product) is to purchase 1x Office + 1x Server Connection CAL for each seat. If you want to use any of the myriad of non-MS multiseat solutions I'd suggest following their lead.

  7. #157

    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    belgium
    Posts
    2
    Thank Post
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by RogerAnscombe View Post
    I do not know who the Belgium dealer is but they seem to be confused about how SoftXpand works.
    SoftXpand works on Windows XP pro, not yet on WIndows 7 so karvijn must be confusing SoftXpand with some other technology. Also SoftXpand has nothing to do with Steady State which is a Microsoft product. Interesting that it no longer works with their own latest operating system.
    There has been a lot of call on this forum for a definitive statement form Microsoft but we all know that is unlikely to happen as the only correct answer would not be to their advantage, however I can now supply the next best thing. Andrew Miller MP is the chairman of the UK Parliament IT Committee (PITCOM) and in his official posision aproached Microsoft to get their answer which I quote below. It is interesting that Microsoft are even unsure whether one or more licenses of Office would be required. I have always suggested multiple copies if only on moral grounds.

    Quote from Andrew Miller MP
    "Some time ago I spoke to the Government Affairs officer of Microsoft and I am confident that there are no licensing issues regarding the operating system. If you have (say) 5 users on your system using 1 processor, that equals one operating system. However as there are 5 users there is an argument that there should be a 5 user licence for applications, but even that is tenuous.
    Regards,
    Andrew Miller MP"
    The dealer is on your website:Multiseat || Windowsmultiseat || Multiseatcomputer || Multiseatpc || Linuxmultiseat || West-Vlaanderen || Belgie || Nederland
    I think you are the very last person on the world believing that you only need one copy of windows on a softxpand system.It is in the answer of microsoft Belux: windows 7 or Xp pro.
    "See: Multiseat || Windowsmultiseat || Multiseatcomputer || Multiseatpc || Linuxmultiseat || West-Vlaanderen || Belgie || Nederland explanation of the seller: On Windows PCs, Windows 7 multiseat Pro or Windows XP Pro installed."

    The answer of microsoft is clear as crystal: illegal!
    If you wish, you can contact MS belux, the contact person is in the answer.Good luck.
    If you want to quote somebody from microsoft who is stating that you need one windows copy, let us know with the microsoft contact name and phone number.And not "spoke with",,,

  8. #158

    tmcd35's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Norfolk
    Posts
    5,612
    Thank Post
    845
    Thanked 880 Times in 730 Posts
    Blog Entries
    9
    Rep Power
    326
    Quote Originally Posted by karvijn View Post
    The answer of microsoft is clear as crystal: illegal!
    Actually not. Do MS discourage the practice? possibly. Is it implied that XP's is ment for single user (at a time) use? pretty much. Did Microsoft update their EULA from XP SP3 and future versions of desktop Windows in order try and clarify their stance? I think so. Is the EULA even legally binding? roll out the lawyers.

    If you want to quote somebody from microsoft who is stating that you need one windows copy, let us know with the microsoft contact name and phone number.And not "spoke with",,,
    I have actually spoken directly with people inside MS on this and getting anyone to go on record with their policy is nigh on impossible. The best you'd get out of MS, officially, is "We now offer our own product in this market - Multipoint Server 2010".

    I don't know how much it means but nComputing (another competitor) stopped selling on a 'use XP' basis and reverted to 'Windows Server + TS-CALs' basis, but then they also seem to be becoming a hardware vendor for the 'official' MS solution, go figure...

  9. #159

    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Matlock
    Posts
    24
    Thank Post
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
    Rep Power
    0

    SoftXpand

    Thank you karvijn for sending me the link to the reseller in Belgium. All is now clear. This site has nothing at all to do with SoftXpand. It is very obviously a totally diffeernt solution. I can tell this as SoftXpand does not operate on Linux. There are a number of other multi seat computer solutions around that work very differently and therefore will need a different licensing model. nComputing is one example that uses access devices in the same way as thin clients and therefore needs to follow the thin client licensing model. With SoftXpand there are no such devices to license. It is also possible that Microsoft have a different licensing arrangement in Belgium to the one in UK. As I only sell in UK, I am only concerned with what is legal in UK. If you want to know the legal position in any other country you will need to contact the SoftXpand dealer there but please make sure you are looking at the right product.

  10. #160

    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Derby
    Posts
    34
    Thank Post
    45
    Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
    Rep Power
    9
    Hi Guys,

    Some comments from my end:

    Miniframe are pushing their solution for DisplayLink at the moment. ie: standard PC, plus a DisplayLink access device and 2 SoftXpand licenses gives a 2 user PC. An access device is being used here so it would fall into the now widely accepted model of licensing Multiseat Solutions, and the client would need a retail copy (if in the business market) or education license of Windows. However......... Microsoft has not released information pertaining to SoftXpand so guessing at how you should license yourself is not an option. Because it's an end user license agreement, the end user ie you guys will be the ones at risk - so do not listen to anyone other than Microsoft! Microsoft do not allow an end user to license themselves with the currently accepted model of MPS 2010 and TS CALs with SoftXpand either. Miniframe have suggested that they're in talks with Microsoft and I really do hope they come to an arrangement that clarifies the licensing of SoftXpand on Windows. I fear it won't be the news we all hope for, however having experience of working with the Miniframe team, they're capable of making things happen and happen in their favour as they realise just how effective SoftXpand is.

    SoftXpand is not Windows 7 ready, however has been shown to run on Server 2003 / 8 32 bit. I personally feel that the server OS is best suited to a multiuser environment. No one can argue that SoftXpand is brilliant on Windows XP though, and truly provides a rich PC performance for 6 users independently. The licensing path on Windows 7 is clear for NComputing, LG etc but not for SoftXpand. Why?

    If you are in education, can you risk not being licensed correctly? How do you explain the decision to the bursar, the governors? One of my colleagues in the industry was intending to replace 300 PCs with SoftXpand, but couldn't run the risk - LG won the order. One of SoftXpand's own top customers in the UK with something like 400 SoftXpand seats was told directly by Microsoft that their set up was illegal. Anyone wanting to check needs to ask for Microsofts legal department who will confirm this. A salesperson, or even a marketing person does not have the authority in Microsoft to say yeah or nay to how SoftXpand is licensed. You absolutely must cover yourselves by going to Microsoft legal - no more speculation, and no more backing off the responsibility to Miniframe as legally it's you who is using Windows not them!

    Windows EULAs are standard the world over, so what is illegal in Belgium is illegal in the UK, especially within the European Union. Andrew Millers comments as a Labour MP should not be copied and pasted into a forum as well known as EduGeek either, and I doubt his office would appreciate his email being posted here. Nevertheless if you took his comments to your board of governors do you think they would then accept them as a legally binding comment? I really doubt it and it wouldn't wash here. Even the Prime Minister stating the same as Andrew wouldn't be acceptable here.

    Multipoint Server 2010 is the standard now. I have seen a VeryPC product with multiple graphics cards running 6 workstations a la SoftXpand. Albeit there are performance issues for multimedia and the limit seems to be 4 users with cad cam, video editing etc. I have also seen a VeryPC product and a HP product running 10 workstations with 10 access devices - for HP the HP access devices were used. For VeryPC they also had their own access devices with loads of USB ports. Performance was identical to NComputing / LG / SoftXpand with DisplayLink. Now what's interesting is with Multipoint Server 2010 which is a great OS you don't need to have NComputing, although NComputing has some tricks that help the OS work better in a multiseat environment. So I agree that MPS2010 negates all other desktop virtualisation products and that perhaps NComputing are aiming to maintain their status as the number one thin client vendor in the world. SoftXpand as a plug in with its performance load balancing would be great though.

    Any thoughts?
    Cheers

  11. #161

    tmcd35's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Norfolk
    Posts
    5,612
    Thank Post
    845
    Thanked 880 Times in 730 Posts
    Blog Entries
    9
    Rep Power
    326
    Quote Originally Posted by multipoint View Post
    Any thoughts?
    On this subject? Always!

    If SoftXpand runs on Server08 32bit, why are they not pushing that as a solution rather than XP? MS 'appear' to be happy with nComputing running on Server OS + TS-CALs. If SoftXpand can run on the same platform then why then that pretty muh clears up the licensing concerns. SoftXpand, IMHO, have the superior product. SoftXpand 3 currently edges out MPS2010 as a complete solution. I think focusing on a dying desktop OS platform with questionable (or atleast the question keeps coming up) licensing is something of a marketing error, unless of course the only OS the system will run on is XP....

    Windows EULAs are standard the world over, so what is illegal in Belgium is illegal in the UK, especially within the European Union
    I still think illegal is the wrong word. There are no acts of parliament (or the EU) that I am aware of that make EULA's binding in any way, thus not following them is not illegal.

    MS might get a bit upset if you choose not to follow the EULA. If they do they can sue thrugh the civil (not criminal - thus not illegal) courts - bad publicity? This has never happened to my knowledge. I've heard good arguments as to why a UK court may not uphold a EULA if tested.

    The laws on EULA's or other prisidents in the Belgium courts may mean that the EULA are legally binding in Belgium - don't know belgium law so I can't comment. Certainly doesn't follow that because the EULA's are standard the world over that they legally apply the same way the world over

    Not that I'm encouraging anyone to dismiss or ignore the EULA in anyway. Personally I'd prefer to stick to the EULA than be the test case

  12. #162
    vSpace's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Surrey
    Posts
    8
    Thank Post
    1
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
    Rep Power
    0
    Hi everyone,

    I've been silently keeping an eye on this thread and it's developed in to quite a debate hasn't it?

    It's been extremely interesting to read so many opinions from various corners of the IT sprectrum.

    I now feel the time is right to offer my assistance in answering any questions you may have on NComputing.

    Please do not misundertstand me...I'm not trying to sabotage this thread. It's just that NComputing has been mentioned a few times and I feel I'm in a good position to answer any questions you may have on NComputing.

    All the best.

    vSpace

  13. #163

    dhicks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Knightsbridge
    Posts
    5,618
    Thank Post
    1,230
    Thanked 776 Times in 673 Posts
    Rep Power
    235
    Quote Originally Posted by vSpace View Post
    I feel I'm in a good position to answer any questions you may have on NComputing.
    I saw the nComputing / HP / LG demo system at BETT this year, and very snazzy it all looked, too. How does nComputing's hardware fit in with usage of Windows Multipoint Server 2010? Is the idea that we can simply buy a 5-port all-in-one expansion card, install Multipoint Server on the server and plug in a bunch of those snazzy all-in-one LG monitors? What advantages (cost / energy / ease of use / etc)-wise will this offer over buying, say, a system with an ATI 6-port Eyefinity card that we can simply plug 6 monitors in to?

    --
    David Hicks

  14. #164
    vSpace's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Surrey
    Posts
    8
    Thank Post
    1
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
    Rep Power
    0
    First things first, I would not bother with the snazzy all-in-one LG monitors. All they are is an LG monitor with an NComputing XD2 access device built in to it...and they are expensive.

    In the interest of saving bundles of money, I would suggest you go for an NComputing X550 5-user kit (RRP £330.00 = £66/user), 5 standard tft monitors (about £100/each for a TFT) and a well spec'd PC (say about £600). You get 5 NComputing XD2 access devices in the NComputing X550 5-user kit along with the 5 port card and vspace virtualisation software. It doesn't matter what brand the TFT's are. The XD2 access devices have standard VESA fixings so they can be mounted to the back of the TFT. Although if you're thinking of mounting the XD2 access device to the back of the TFT, you will need a TFT that has a stand that does not use the VESA fixings on the TFT.

    The NComputing X550 works perfectly well with Windows MultiPoint Server 2010...can't really expand on that I'm afraid.

    It would be difficult to say what advantages NComputing can bring over a system with an ATI 6 port Eyefinity card with 6 monitors, because it's a bit like comparing apples with pears. As far as I'm aware an ATI 6 port Eyefinity card with 6 monitors would simply provide the PC user the ability to use 6 different monitors at the same time...where as NComputing is all about sharing the computing capability of one PC to multiple users. To put it another way, the NComputing X550 will extend your single user PC to a multiple user PC...you can have up to 10 additional users from one PC (2 x NComputing X550 5-user kits in one PC).

    With regards to energy, NComputing devices range from 1w to 5w's of power, depending on which NComputing product you're using. A typical PC would use somewhere between 100w to 150w's of power. So you can radically reduce your power consumption...and radically reduce your electricity bill as well...and it will also help you sleep at night because you're massively reducing your carbon footprint as well...saving money, saving energy, saving the planet (i'll get my coat!).

  15. #165

    dhicks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Knightsbridge
    Posts
    5,618
    Thank Post
    1,230
    Thanked 776 Times in 673 Posts
    Rep Power
    235
    Quote Originally Posted by vSpace View Post
    I would suggest you go for an NComputing X550 5-user kit (RRP £330.00 = £66/user), 5 standard tft monitors (about £100/each for a TFT) and a well spec'd PC (say about £600).
    What about individual workstation's USB connectivity? If I understand correctly the X550 terminal device provides connectivity for a PS/2 keyboard and mouse but no USB connections - do you still need to run a USB cable to each workstation from the central shared PC?

    As far as I'm aware an ATI 6 port Eyefinity card with 6 monitors would simply provide the PC user the ability to use 6 different monitors at the same time...
    No, combined with Windows Multipoint Server and enough USB hubs to plug a USB keyboard and mouse in for each workstation, a six-port graphics card would let six users use the one PC at one time. If you assume that you'd have to run a USB connection to each nComputing-based workstation anyway, as described above, then it would seem simpler to just buy a multi-port graphics card, some LCD monitors with built-in USB hubs and a copy of Multipoint Server.

    Does nComputing's vSpace software offer any performance or usability advantages over Multpoint Server? Does nComputing's hardware offer any particular advantages - what is the point of buying nComputing hardware when you can just buy off-the-shelf kit? Which solution offers better graphics performance per workstation - does nComputing's specialised hardware better provide consistent graphics performance per workstation, or does a modern dedicated graphics card provide better performance?

    Do you work directly for nComputing, or are you a reseller of their products?

    --
    David Hicks

SHARE:
+ Post New Thread

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •