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Hardware Thread, Softxpand Miniframe in Technical; Hi Ric, Win 7 may be more difficult than XP. We will have to work on the licensing as well ...
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    SoftXpand MiniFrame

    Hi Ric,

    Win 7 may be more difficult than XP. We will have to work on the licensing as well as the technology just as we did with the XP version. If you interpret the XP EULA to suggest that SoftXpand is illegal then you have to admit that MS Multipoint Mouse is also illegal, but you tell me that you are already using MP Mouse. I don't want to be rude but this sounds like double standards to me or are you just satisfied that Microsoft will not sue you for using their own product? It is difficult isn't it?

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    Microsoft have the rights to sell a license for Multipoint mouse, it's their product, so is windows.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RogerAnscombe View Post
    If you interpret the XP EULA to suggest that SoftXpand is illegal then you have to admit that MS Multipoint Mouse is also illegal, but you tell me that you are already using MP Mouse. I don't want to be rude but this sounds like double standards to me or are you just satisfied that Microsoft will not sue you for using their own product? It is difficult isn't it?
    I agree, if I were to use the Multipoint Mouse technology to allow several people to control multiple instances of an application, it would then be breaking the EULA. The implementation I use simply allows multiple mice to be used to answer questions within Powerpoint presentations.

    As PeteHopton states, MS do also have the right to grant exceptions to their EULAs and I imagine that they would grant an exception for their own technologies.

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    You'll find multipoint mouse explicitly excepted from term 2c in the W7 and latest Vista EULA. It is covered under the "Additional license terms" term 2, which is reverenced in 2c.

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    SoftXpand MiniFrame

    Thank you Peter for that comment. You have pointed out exactly what I have been saying. Microsoft are trying to have one rule for themselves and a different rule for others. This may work in some developing countries but in Europe and US this is illegal. This is why both US and EU have splapped enormous fines recently on Microsoft. I agree that Microsoft have every right to sell any product they like but by European law then must then allow others do supply similar or better products.

    Any organisation is of course free to chose conventional desktop PCs, thin clients or "The Ultimate Green PC". It all comes down to quality and performance. As far as cost is concerned there is great confusion here as SoftXpand is always sold and quoted for a comlete solution including PC, keyboards, mice, USB hubs and software whereas all the adverts for nComputing I have seen are just for the access devices and ignore the controlling PC and additional CALs required. When all the costs are added up I believe SoftXpand is a clear winner but I would rather you looked back through this forum as this is much more convincing coming from end users who have tried both.

    I joined this forum for one reason only as I wanted to bring some facts to answer questions that were being asked by the members. I sell SoftXpand because I believe in the product and the benefits it brings not just to the end users but also to the wider community through carbon savings. I was offered NComputing to sell but I turned it down as I considered it to be an inferior product to SoftXpand. You sell nComputing so we both need to be very carefull that this forum does not degenerate into a tennis match. Both SoftXpand and nComputing are multiseat solutions and both will save carbon to differing degrees so both are valuable products and I am very happy for them to be tested side by side.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RogerAnscombe View Post
    Thank you Peter for that comment. You have pointed out exactly what I have been saying. Microsoft are trying to have one rule for themselves and a different rule for others. This may work in some developing countries but in Europe and US this is illegal. This is why both US and EU have splapped enormous fines recently on Microsoft. I agree that Microsoft have every right to sell any product they like but by European law then must then allow others do supply similar or better products.
    Have you asked for an exception from Microsoft? I suspect that there would be a hefty charge for the priviledge but if you don't ask you don't get.

    At the same time, Microsoft do provide a means for you to develop a product (using a server OS rather than a client OS). Microsoft also provide the Multipoint Mouse SDK to developers - if you were to use this to develop your solution you would probably be able to use your solution on a client OS. I don't really think you can say that the EULA is anti-competitive.

    Any organisation is of course free to chose conventional desktop PCs, thin clients or "The Ultimate Green PC". It all comes down to quality and performance. As far as cost is concerned there is great confusion here as SoftXpand is always sold and quoted for a comlete solution including PC, keyboards, mice, USB hubs and software whereas all the adverts for nComputing I have seen are just for the access devices and ignore the controlling PC and additional CALs required. When all the costs are added up I believe SoftXpand is a clear winner but I would rather you looked back through this forum as this is much more convincing coming from end users who have tried both.
    This thread is not about the relative cost benefits of SoftXpand, nComputing or any other product... I think we all agree that using one of these multi-seat computing models can have TCO benefits as well as 'green' benefits.

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    Seems like i cant get away from the SoftXpand stuff lol.

    I never got back to this thread because MS never got back to me unfortunately, however i can see a nice debate going on and such and im not here to chime in on that, rather i have some questions about softxpand as im in need of 6 systems at a cheap price, and id like some questions answered if possible.

    I am replacing some old dead machines and already have motherboards, keyboards and mice, however the keyboards are PS2, i take it you cant use PS2 mice with softxpand? (something about usb hubs or whatever)

    The machines i purchase will have to go on a domain, is it possible to use softxpand as part of a 2003 domain and will each of the machines from softxpand show up individually in active directory?

    Same question for sophos enterprise console/em library

    Final question, can anyone recommend a reseller for a softxpand system? Thanks!

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    AFAIK you'd need to talk direct to Miniframe UK. Although you might want to check out VeryPC who do bespoke nComputing and Multipoint Server solutions. Microsoft Multipoint Server is now available via your usual Volume License reseller. Having used and setup all three systems - my money is on MS Multipoint Server. If you like I can PM you the details of the reseller who sold me the HP Kit I've just installed.

  9. Thanks to tmcd35 from:

    multipoint (27th April 2010)

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    SoftXpand MiniFrame

    Hi Bluetooth,

    Your are correct that the keyboards and mice do need to be USB apart from one set that can be connected to the standard PS2 ports but this will not save you much. Most manufacturers supply a new keyboard and mouse with each new PC so we follow suit and each SoftXpand system is normally supplied complete with 6 keyboards, 6 mice and 6 4 port USB hubs.

    Using SoftXpand, each user will log onto your domain in exactly the same way as if they had separate individual PCs. That is one of the Joys of SoftXpand, apart from the increase in PC performance, the end users generally do not know that they are sharing one PC.

    Oriel technical College in Norfolk use Sophos for their antivirus on all their SoftXpand units and have saved a lot of their budget.

    Your nearest reseller is CCL at Tong. They usually have a 6 user demo in their showroom but last time I was there it was out on loan to a school.

    If you have any questions you can always call me on 01629 700270

    Regards

    Roger

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    Hi Roger

    THanks for your reply.

    I think ill be popping up to CCL after work or maybe this weekend depdning on how things go. Do the technical college use just sophos or enterprise console?

    Also (A quick return to the licensing debate stuff), i just read a ZDNet review of softxpand and basically the article claims that softxpand is actually legal because even though you are using remote desktop in a way, there is only one machine creating the processes etc and therefore it doesnt violate MS's T&C's. Is this correct?

    Thanks again

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    Hi Bluetooth,
    You are correct. There is no problem with the Microsoft licensing. Unfortunately a few people have spread a rumour about the licensing issue and rumours are like burst feather pillows. Once released you can never collect all the feathers back together again.
    I do not know the exact version of Sophos used at Oriel but I do know that it is a suite and not just AV. I also know that he spoke to Sophos about their licensing and was informed that he would only need one license per cluster as there is only one hard drive to check. He tells me that this has saved his school an additional £4,000. He also told me at BETT that if he used standalone PCs throughout his school, he would need to employ an additional 2 technicians just to maintain them. The savings from SoftXpand go on and on.

    Regards

    Roger

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    Hi

    Thanks for your reply Roger. I have spoken to one of my suppliers (who i beleive has been in touch with you regarding demo and such).

    I was not asking about sophos from the point of view of licensing as kirklees purchase sophos in a LEA wide license so we're pretty free to use sophos as many times as we like afaik. The reason i was wondering was because of sophos em console and such i didnt want any incompatiblity and such.

    i beleive i may be coming down to matlock with my supplier maybe some point next week but with monday being my on call time and no schools being in im not actually at work and therefore not able to do research/come take a peek.

    I will be coming down most likely sometime in the near future for sure.

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    SoftXpand MiniFrame

    Hi Bluetooth,

    I look forward to meeting you soon and showing you the very latest release of SoftXpand. It is now even better than you have seen before.

    I have checked with Oriel College and they are using Sophos enterprise console/em library.

    Regards

    Roger

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    Gov
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    This all looks pretty interesting. I am an I.T. Governor at a small primary school and we are looking for a new system with approx 16 PC's. Could you give me an idea how much such a solution would cost? Thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gov View Post
    This all looks pretty interesting. I am an I.T. Governor at a small primary school and we are looking for a new system with approx 16 PC's. Could you give me an idea how much such a solution would cost? Thanks
    Depends on a number of factors -
    • What you use as a base PC
    • The ratio of seats/users to 1 PC
    • Which OS you want to use
    • Your view on licensing requirements
    • Which tech (nComp/SoftXpand/Multipoint/etc) you want use


    Personally I'd budget around £700 for the base PC and work on wither a 4:1, 5:1 or 6:1 ratio depending on workload of each PC (type of programs being run, etc). Bare in mind at the very least you'll need to buy a Monitor, USB Keyboard, USB Mouse and USB hub for each seat. Also you'll definately need at least a Windows CAL for each seat if you are running on a Windows Domain network and probably a Microsoft Office license for each seat (unless of course you choose to use OpenOffice instead).

    For 16 seats I'd guess at change from around £7k or £8k. Carefull planning and choices with a low work load may just get a solution under £5k - at a guess.



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