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Hardware Thread, New Printer Technology in Technical; Dont forget the new ink jet tech on the way. the one with the full width print head that will ...
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    ICT_GUY's Avatar
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    New Printer Technology

    Dont forget the new ink jet tech on the way. the one with the full width print head that will print A4 - A0 faster than a laser printer.

    http://texyt.com/silverbrook+memjet+...ine+comparison

    watch this vid, it will blow you away. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wu-6vywiAN4
    Last edited by ICT_GUY; 20th March 2008 at 07:48 PM.

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    contink's Avatar
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    Going slightly off-topic...
    Quote Originally Posted by ICT_GUY View Post
    Dont forget the new ink jet tech on the way. the one with the full width print head that will print A4 - A0 faster than a laser printer.
    I wouldn't get your hopes up there.. The expression "too good to be true" springs to mind and this definitely hits all the red flags.


    Edit: A little googling indicates that there's no real "reliable" witnesses who've seen this technology in action. The video doesn't really provide much more than you'd get on something like NCIS where an Epson C42 can suddenly print at 20ppm (I've seen it so it must be true *LOL*). Perhaps my main disbelief though is the promised pricing which I base on my experience of the market and my knowledge of how competitors have acted throughout. The question I have to ask is would any self respecting company produce something that cut printing costs so much. Cut them by 10-15% yes, but not 90%+... That's hardly good business sense now is it. The issues of ink flow, clogging, data speed, paper/media handling are all important factors too and leave more questions than answers...

    Sure, I could be wrong and if I am perhaps my business model is moot (along with Epson, HP, etc...) but somehow I have my doubts...



    Anyway back on topic:

    @dhicks... Hadn't considered that curriculum poster... Good idea
    Last edited by contink; 22nd March 2008 at 02:41 PM.

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    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by contink View Post
    Going slightly off-topic...


    I wouldn't get your hopes up there.. The expression "too good to be true" springs to mind and this definitely hits all the red flags.


    Edit: A little googling indicates that there's no real "reliable" witnesses who've seen this technology in action. The video doesn't really provide much more than you'd get on something like NCIS where an Epson C42 can suddenly print at 20ppm (I've seen it so it must be true *LOL*). Perhaps my main disbelief though is the promised pricing which I base on my experience of the market and my knowledge of how competitors have acted throughout. The question I have to ask is would any self respecting company produce something that cut printing costs so much. Cut them by 10-15% yes, but not 90%+... That's hardly good business sense now is it. The issues of ink flow, clogging, data speed, paper/media handling are all important factors too and leave more questions than answers...

    Sure, I could be wrong and if I am perhaps my business model is moot (along with Epson, HP, etc...) but somehow I have my doubts...
    HP already manufacture stationary printhead 'edge-to-edge' printers in their edgeline range. The CM8060 can do 60 B&W inkjet pages and 50 Colour inkjet pages, edge to edge, per minute... https://h30406.www3.hp.com/campaigns...0614_NA_r1.pdf

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    contink's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    HP already manufacture stationary printhead 'edge-to-edge' printers in their edgeline range. The CM8060 can do 60 B&W inkjet pages and 50 Colour inkjet pages, edge to edge, per minute... https://h30406.www3.hp.com/campaigns...0614_NA_r1.pdf
    True... but the cost of such technology is how high??!

    Having heard quite a few promises in the industry over the years (ppm marketing being an example) I'll hold off on any opinion. Once I've seen if it works, is priced at the levels being alleged and manages to answer issues like nozzle clogging, page feeding, etc... then I'll be in a position to worry or not.

    Perhaps we could move this stuff into a separate thread in hardware cos' I think it deserves it...

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    localzuk's Avatar
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    The prices for the CM8060 start at around £7k ex-vat. Considering it would be used in place of a laser printer/photocopier, that price isn't too bad.

    Also consider the cost per page being less than we pay at the moment for our photocopier (6p for colour), it is economical too.

    However, the latest equipment in this area is still new, and therefore likely has plenty of kinks and bugs to work out. Give it a couple of years and it'll mature.

    If the unit could handle the volume of A3 that we do in school and if it could do saddle stitching (which, supposedly is on the way), I would be pushing to get one to replace our aging canon ir5800 that we use in school.

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    torledo's Avatar
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    Has anyone other than these quacks calling themselves silverbrook research reviewed any of these products ? I believe it's complete bollix,
    go to the website and look at the home/office printers that they should have released in 2007 and there's no technical specs just that doctored video....

    They may have done the research, they may have built prototypes and these videos might be genuine. But i don't believe they've developed a small/office product at all. If they have where are they being sold and at what price ? And are there any reviews other than pcmag nominating a product/technology they've never seen in action or verified. The twits.

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    contink's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by torledo View Post
    Has anyone other than these quacks calling themselves silverbrook research reviewed any of these products ? I believe it's complete bollix,
    go to the website and look at the home/office printers that they should have released in 2007 and there's no technical specs just that doctored video....
    That's kind of my qualm over the whole thing... The technology may well be possible but where I found my antenna twitching was the promised pricing model which indicated that:
    a) they were/would-be producing the printers at comparable costs to many mid-high-end inkjets and selling at comparable prices too
    b) they were selling 50ml+ cartridges at low costs too.

    No business in their right mind would do that with the inkjet and printing industry a huge cash cow (bulk of HP's profit comes from printers after all). The rational seemed to be almost one of "We come to smite the evil printer barons who've held your ransom for so long"... No investor in their right mind is going to be party to that!!

    Besides those R&D costs need to be covered with appropriate pricing, etc... The sums, they don't add up at all.. :P

    And are there any reviews other than pcmag nominating a product/technology they've never seen in action or verified. The twits.
    I'll be asking my ink supplier on Tuesday about all of this but I expect to hear him laugh for a good few minutes first before I can get anything out of him :P

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    ICT_GUY's Avatar
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    They reckon, the cost will be under £250 for A4.

    Printing costs will be much lower, cheaper than laser.

    Speed comes from having a print head the width of the page.

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    localzuk's Avatar
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    I don't see them surviving without being bought out by one of the big companies anyway. Can you see a company like HP or Lexmark allowing a small company to undercut them? I can't.

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    torledo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ICT_GUY View Post
    They reckon, the cost will be under £250 for A4.

    Printing costs will be much lower, cheaper than laser.

    Speed comes from having a print head the width of the page.
    will be under 250 ?

    They were supposed to have released a product last year......plus that first link mentioned some people believing the thing to be a hoax.

    If it was a case of using a wider print head why haven't hp done it - with all the R&D dollars you would have thought it would have been something they've looked into. Also, if the technology was proven they would have bought this startup for a few million ages ago if it were such a threat to it's market share or a product to revolutionize the industry. If not HP then Epson would have made the acquisition as they have a portfolio of products of the photo print variety that could do with the speed boost.

    It patently isn't a viable proposition even at the compratively cheap price . Atleast i don't think HP exec are having sleepless nights.

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    contink's Avatar
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    Right... I've been able to chat to my ink supplier today and get a bit more info' so here's the gen' although it should be noted that my supplier made it clear that he too had done some digging and to quote him

    I got so far and then hit this big brick informational wall
    In short, it's all a bit quiet.


    He made the following points:
    1. The technology does exist
    2. It's a re-hash of an earlier tech that was first invented some years back but suffered from low resolution limitations
    3. All the demo's, etc... are 3rd party and offer no information regarding resolution, clarity, colour accuracy, etc..
    4. Paper handling would be a huge problem for a system this speed and would most likely be falling back on a paper roll system as an interim solution as in many wide format printing scenarios.


    In addition the scuttlebutt in the industry is that one of the big companies (possibly Japanese but NOT one of the existing printer manufacturers) has bought out the technology and patents.

    Whilst I couldn't get a committment on timing my contact guesstimated 5 years before such a system got to market (although he admitted he'd made predictions like that before and been burned ). He also indicated that the prototype had proved it could work it's also a whole slew of issues that the system needed to address before a "to market" version would arrive. It doesn't take a genius to realise this would most likely include problems like nozzle clogging, ink feed, paper handling, etc... All issues that plague existing systems. Ink is still ink, after all The old saying of the devil is in the detail definitely applies.

    Finally, he agreed completely with my assessment regarding the costing of such a system. There would be little, if any, point in pricing such a system so low as suggested by the articles on the memjet when the profits to be made could be so much higher. A real no brainer, as we're not talking about charity here, but business.


    Oh and last , last point... It's highly likely that the big printer manufacturers are already working on systems to compete so it could be one of those innovations that comes in and forces more from elsewhere.

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    Michael's Avatar
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    Interestingly technology, but time will tell if it's true or not. Marketing the idea/product would be extremely important and price wise, it would have to be competitive. The printing market as it currently stands is extremely competitive.

    I've only ever seen speeds like that with photocopiers (black and white) and large printing presses in my college days.

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    torledo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by contink View Post
    Right... I've been able to chat to my ink supplier today and get a bit more info' so here's the gen' although it should be noted that my supplier made it clear that he too had done some digging and to quote him



    In short, it's all a bit quiet.


    He made the following points:
    1. The technology does exist
    2. It's a re-hash of an earlier tech that was first invented some years back but suffered from low resolution limitations
    3. All the demo's, etc... are 3rd party and offer no information regarding resolution, clarity, colour accuracy, etc..
    4. Paper handling would be a huge problem for a system this speed and would most likely be falling back on a paper roll system as an interim solution as in many wide format printing scenarios.


    In addition the scuttlebutt in the industry is that one of the big companies (possibly Japanese but NOT one of the existing printer manufacturers) has bought out the technology and patents.

    Whilst I couldn't get a committment on timing my contact guesstimated 5 years before such a system got to market (although he admitted he'd made predictions like that before and been burned ). He also indicated that the prototype had proved it could work it's also a whole slew of issues that the system needed to address before a "to market" version would arrive. It doesn't take a genius to realise this would most likely include problems like nozzle clogging, ink feed, paper handling, etc... All issues that plague existing systems. Ink is still ink, after all The old saying of the devil is in the detail definitely applies.

    Finally, he agreed completely with my assessment regarding the costing of such a system. There would be little, if any, point in pricing such a system so low as suggested by the articles on the memjet when the profits to be made could be so much higher. A real no brainer, as we're not talking about charity here, but business.


    Oh and last , last point... It's highly likely that the big printer manufacturers are already working on systems to compete so it could be one of those innovations that comes in and forces more from elsewhere.
    In that case i'll wait for HP to release the RapidJet approximately five years from now. ;-)

    I'm getting the impression it's still an emerging technology so that makes some of the claims made by this company (see i've forgetton what they're called already) a little fanciful.

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    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by torledo View Post
    In that case i'll wait for HP to release the RapidJet approximately five years from now. ;-)
    Pff, RapidJet! I want a 'HyperJet SuperSpeed 3000' :P

    But on a serious point - what is the difference between this tech and that which is used in the HP stuff I mentioned earlier?

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