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Hardware Thread, Server Spec req'd in Technical; I'm trying to find a decent spec for a server to run W2K3 Server with Terminal Services that will be ...
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    kearton's Avatar
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    Server Spec req'd

    I'm trying to find a decent spec for a server to run W2K3 Server with Terminal Services that will be used for Staff to VPN in to use SIMS.net from both the classroom and home.

    I've got some info from Capita for one of their VPN solutions (HP ML150 1.6 Quad Core Xeon, 4Gb RAM), but thats only for 15 concurrent connections.

    We need one that will handle 100 concurrent connections.
    Last edited by kearton; 20th January 2008 at 06:53 PM.

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    100 concurrent TS sessions is very unlikely, You will need multiple servers

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    Geoff's Avatar
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    I spread 75 users over 4x Dell Poweredge 860's (4Gb Ram, Dual Core Conroe Xeon 3060 2.4GFhz CPU) with Citrix Presentation server 4.5

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    kearton's Avatar
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    We're looking for solutions to use Lesson Monitor etc from the classrooms (which are on the Curriculum network) and SIMS runs off the Admin network.

    VPN hardware I've seen tends to come in 25,50,100,250 user flavours, so I used the 100 figure because 50 is too small. 1 for every classroom. That's about 65 to start. Plus anyone else who's connecting...

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    localzuk's Avatar
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    You seem to be mixing VPN and terminal servers up here. VPN equipment has a much lower demand on equipment (it's just a form of secure router). A terminal server user will use a lot more resources. I'd say to look at having 30 concurrent users on a dual quad core 2Ghz with 4GB ram - which you should be able to pick up at the moment for about 1300 (HP DL360 G5).

    They would do the terminal serving. Then you would need some form of VPN provider, so you could either go with the standard microsoft solution or go for something more robust like a cisco based solution (priced accordingly).

    However, I'd be looking at creating a single forest with 2 domains, so staff can log in on the other machines for accessing lesson monitor. Or, further still, just having 1 domain. Split networks are more effort than they are worth.

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    kearton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    You seem to be mixing VPN and terminal servers up here.
    No. As per my original post... for use to VPN in to use TS.

    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    I'd say to look at having 30 concurrent users
    Again, as per my earlier posts, I'm looking for a solution that will handle max 100 concurrent users.
    30 concurrent is no good when all 60-70 classrooms all try to connect to use Lesson Monitor.


    I'm not asking for the pros and cons of merging networks etc. That's an option I have to consider aswell, but it's a completely different kettle of fish. The purpose of my original question is to gather information on what spec server hardware I would need for max 100 TS connections.

    Thanks and have a good weekend.
    Last edited by kearton; 18th January 2008 at 03:53 PM.

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    dhicks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    I'd say to look at having 30 concurrent users on a dual quad core 2Ghz with 4GB ram
    So you figure about 1/4 of a core and 512MB of RAM per user? Sounds like our single-processor, dual-core, 2GB RAM server might be a bit pushed...

    --
    David Hicks

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    greenfieldsupport's Avatar
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    unless you have a VERY bad setup

    you wont need to "VPN" in to use TS :P

    unless your servers are stored somewhere else ?
    which would be silly, silly i tell you!

    So your asking for a TS solution, and ONE of the what sounds like several servers you need, will also host VPN on the side...

    hence why i think people are suggesting what they are to you

    Hope this helps

    We dont use TS here, but i imagine the suggestions from geoff and localzuk arnt far off...

    but every 30 user slot costing you 1300 + cost of a dumb terminal... wouldnt it be alot cheaper just either A. fitting REAL machines, or B. giving the staff laptops?

    you could still host VPN..

    I dont think TS is your way forward, although im used to doing things with a small budget...

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    kearton's Avatar
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    jeeeez, maybe I should have posted in the FFS section instead.......
    Last edited by kearton; 20th January 2008 at 06:56 PM.

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    torledo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kearton View Post
    I'm trying to find a decent spec for a server to run W2K3 Server with Terminal Services that will be used for Staff to VPN in to use SIMS.net from both the classroom and home.

    I've got some info from Capita for one of their VPN solutions (HP ML150 1.6 Quad Core Xeon, 4Gb RAM), but thats only for 15 concurrent connections.

    We need one that will handle 100 concurrent connections.

    Any thoughts, suggestions, recommendations?
    Agree with Dave McCoy, you'll probably need atleast x2 two socket quad core servers for 100 concurrent users - you may, just, be able to do it with a single box but only if you went down the intel MP route - so that's a big, expensive DL585 (or Dell equivalent) 4 socket box with LOTS of RAM....

    Otherwise you'd have to go with 2 or 3 quad-core DL385's / Dell PE2950's with 8GB RAM each....three servers will probably allow you to scale beyond 100.

    Exact server spec will depend on type of sessions i.e light, moderate or power user/workload....and whether you plan on using any dedicated Thin client terminals.

    Either solution fully specced inc. internal storage will set you back in the region of 7.5 - 9K......Or you could always go down the blade server route....half a dozen blades in a dell or hp chassis is a good starting point.

    HTH, btw i agree with you - wish people would just answer you're question the best way they can instead of trying to be clever.

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    kearton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfieldsupport View Post
    unless you have a VERY bad setup you wont need to "VPN" in to use TS :P
    Regardless of whether you think the setup here is good or bad, it's what I inherited and am currently stuck with. I'm looking into options to change, and to do this right I need some information, such as the specs for server(s) to handle 100 TS connections.

    Quote Originally Posted by greenfieldsupport View Post
    So your asking for a TS solution
    you're

    Quote Originally Posted by greenfieldsupport View Post
    Hope this helps
    actually, no. It's just made me grumpier (it's been a bad week. cya, I'm off for a much needed drink...)

    Quote Originally Posted by greenfieldsupport View Post
    but every 30 user slot costing you 1300 + cost of a dumb terminal... wouldnt it be alot cheaper just either A. fitting REAL machines, or B. giving the staff laptops?
    The staff HAVE real machines in the classrooms. But they're on a different network! If the networks remain seperate then I need to connect to one from the Internet (which would allow Staff to connect to SIMS from both home, and the classroom)

    Quote Originally Posted by greenfieldsupport View Post
    I dont think TS is your way forward
    As I've already said, I'm NOT looking for anyone elses recommendation for what I should be doing, I'm looking for SERVER SPECS for max 100 TS connections.

    Thanks again to those who HAVE replied so far with server specs...
    Last edited by kearton; 18th January 2008 at 04:41 PM. Reason: Fixing a typo because I'm pedantic!

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    mortstar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kearton View Post
    The staff HAVE real machines in the classrooms. But they're on a different network! If the networks remain seperate then I need to connect to one from the Internet (which would allow Staff to connect to SIMS from both home, and the classroom)
    Domain Trust

    Edit: For in house connection obv.
    Last edited by mortstar; 18th January 2008 at 05:49 PM.

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    DMcCoy's Avatar
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    If you really want to attempt 100 concurrent clients then you are going to have to start pricing something out with 32 or 64 GB RAM and at least 4 quad core cpus. 20-30 Is the usual maximum number of clients suggested for most applications.

    The only sensible way of supporting that many sessions is with multiple servers.

    Edit: reduce memory suggestion as its just for sims
    Last edited by DMcCoy; 18th January 2008 at 05:55 PM.

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    Also consider will sims run on 64bit? because you will need a 64bit O/S to run >4GB . If you actually require one epic server and not smaller ones another solution would be to virtualise on the quad core uber server.
    Citrix now offer a virtualisation solution based on XEN.

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    Edit: reduce memory suggestion as its just for sims
    you mean increase, as its for sims

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