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Hardware Thread, Disk-to-Disk-to-Tape Backup in Technical; Yes that's why I have my backups to take offsite weekly. As I see it, if I'm going to need ...
  1. #16
    mrforgetful's Avatar
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    Re: Disk-to-Disk-to-Tape Backup

    Yes that's why I have my backups to take offsite weekly.

    As I see it, if I'm going to need to recover from an offsite backup it probably means the school's burnt down, in which case redoing 1 week's work is the last of anyone's worries.
    SIMs data is done daily to a tape.

    So other than silly deletions and the school burning down I suppose there's middle ground - a server breaks. If it's motherboard or something of that nature then the drives are fine so can be put in another computer whatever. If it's that a drive's failed it'll carry on until I get another delivered to rebuild the RAID, doesn't even need a backup.

    Sure your backup regime is nice, it's robust, complete, thorough etc, but how much was it? Mine came in at less than £800.

  2. #17

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    Re: Disk-to-Disk-to-Tape Backup

    We have a DIY server based upon a P4 Intel server board running Server 2003 sitting in a locked cupboard in the sports hall, a seperate building at the far end of our site. It is connected via fibre to the backbone network. It has a system drive & 5x 250gb SATA data volumes, labelled MONDAY, TUESDAY...... No RAID, nothing fancy.

    Every night we copy data from each of our servers to the appropriate nights HDD. Each server has its own backup folder, we use NTBACKUP, again nothing fancy to do the backups. Each server disk is backed up seperately.

    I will be swapping out the 250gb drives for 500gb drives over half-term as we are down to less than 10% free space.

    We also use a program called Secondcopy to copy changed data from our main file server to another local server in the server room, this is used 95% of the time to recover lost/overwritten data.

    This process has worked fine for more than 2 years now, the only problems I have encountered was when the PSU in the server gave up the ghost after a power interrupt (No UPS), and a couple of times when the network connection was lost during power maintenance during school holidays.

    To keep the County MIS people happy we back up SIMS to tape too, and this is kept in a media quality fire safe. I also do tape backups of user data to an old 40gb DLT drive every half term and keep these in the fire safe. We hold these tapes for just under 2 years.

    If I have time (& remember), I test restore a folder or two to satisfy myself the tape is readable, just in case!

    Cost of the original setup was less than £600, plus another £280 this month for the new HDD.

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    mrforgetful's Avatar
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    Re: Disk-to-Disk-to-Tape Backup

    Don't Firesafe's just keep things ok for a couple of hours? Always wanted one but always pretty scared when I read up on them!

  4. #19

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    Re: Disk-to-Disk-to-Tape Backup

    A media fire tape safe will keep the data intact for a specified amount of time depending on it's rating and therefore cost.

    Mine for example is rated for 1hr I think.

    Not that it matters as we only backup to a nas and therefore the tape drives we have are redundant.

    I wonder if it's possible to get the fire brigade to rescue it in the even of a fire?

    Ben

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    Re: Disk-to-Disk-to-Tape Backup

    Our firesafe is in the main office, a single storey building of very little substance, I reckon it would be burnt to a crisp before the safe was 'cooked'. Its better than me having to remember to take tapes home/bring them back

    The remote server is our primary backup, the firesafe is for 'show' & to keep the MIS team happy.

  6. #21
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    Re: Disk-to-Disk-to-Tape Backup

    Yeah firesafes are around an hour for a decent one, I think that is what mine is rated at.

    As far as cost for my backup solution it came in at around £2k but it was decided that this be spent due to a failure that happened before I got here and seeing as prices have dropped a great deal over the last 12 months i.e 2TB NAS for £400 then it make sense.

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    Re: Disk-to-Disk-to-Tape Backup

    I have an additional domain controller located in a different building which is fitted with 2 500gb drives. Backups are set to alternate between the two drives, and are sufficient for two weeks of rolling backups with space to spare.

    I also have a pair of encrypted USB hard drives (300gb) which I make backups on over the weekend and midweek.

    Used to just use the USB jobbies until they started running out of room.

    Total cost, about £340 so far (not including the server which is basically a spare desktop).

    Never had any problems.

  8. #23
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    Re: Disk-to-Disk-to-Tape Backup

    How many instances are you keeping with just the disk backup? I like the fact that with tapes I can go back to 18 different monthly tapes (I have more, but they are a different format and less organised).

    I find that people only remember that they deleted *really* important documents when they have fallen off the backup cycle.

  9. #24

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    Re: Disk-to-Disk-to-Tape Backup

    For disaster recovery, we keep the last 5 daily backups on disk on our remote DR server, these wrap round weekly. To cope with the accidental deletion/overwriting of data, we use Secondcopy which maintains the last 'n' versions of the file. Normally this is set to 5 versions. At the moment, in the event of a disaster we would lose these older versions of files however I am looking at the possibility of copying these to the DR server too, providing I can find some space.

    I really don't like tape technology, or at least not the sort that typically gets used in PC server enviroments. The IBM Magstar tapes are the only tape technology I would trust. I have seen too many bad tapes in my time, and many more that would only work on the drive they were written on; not good in a disaster

  10. #25
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    Re: Disk-to-Disk-to-Tape Backup

    i'm with DMcoy on this one VSS is only going to cover you for a month at best hence the 18 monthly tapes I have also to get around the "I forgot I deleted it" line.

  11. #26

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    Re: Disk-to-Disk-to-Tape Backup

    DMcCoy: Have you tested those tapes at all?

    Ben

  12. #27
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    Re: Disk-to-Disk-to-Tape Backup

    Quote Originally Posted by plexer
    DMcCoy: Have you tested those tapes at all?

    Ben
    They are tested occasionally and used to restore work. I've not had a dead LTO tape yet, the monthly tapes are used just once. Tapes work fine if you keep them at the right temperatures and replace them each year.

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    Re: Disk-to-Disk-to-Tape Backup

    I currently do a full backup straight to tape each friday and have a rotation of 6 LTO-3 tapes
    Differential backups are done every day to disk

    It works well but I would like to be able to backup to disk first, just so I could have the last weeks worth there for quick restore without having to trudge all the way to the fire safe (which is kept in another building) every time someone loses a file (which happens quite often)

    Problem Ive got is that to do proper Disk to disk to tape with Backup Exec, you need at least version 10 I think. Im stuck with 9.1 as we cant afford to upgrade. I did try in the past to just backup the backup files to tape but reimporting them into backup exec was a nightmare when we needed to restore something

  14. #29
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    Re: Disk-to-Disk-to-Tape Backup

    I don't think you need back up exec 10 if you use iSCSI as it appears as a local drive. For this you would need some thing like an HP virtual tape library which can act as an iSCSI target.

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    Re: Disk-to-Disk-to-Tape Backup

    Sorry to dredge up a month-old thread, but has anyone looked at Microsoft's Data Protection Manager 2007 for this purpose? I couldn't find any forums hits in the search (can you do phrase searches?!).

    It's not all that expensive to education (not got exact figures yet, but going off american edu pricing) when compared with some of the commercial offerings from arcserve/veritas etc. and it seems to do near-continuous backups of sql server 2000/2005, exchange 2003/2007, sharepoint... and will do D>D>T backups as well if you want (I don't!). The backup is block-level a la volume shadow copy too, so presumably gives you a similar return in terms of "lifespan of backups vs. space required".

    Other plus points:
    You can also allow people to restore their own data if you are so inclined.
    It isn't Computer Associates Arcserve Brightstor Backup 11
    Tape encryption
    Data deduplication to reduce storage requirements
    Bandwidth throttling

    Downsides:
    Needs a Windows server to run on - possibly a dedicated one, but that may be avoidable.
    It's not free, as mentioned above.
    It can't do its magic with Win2k (lack of volume shadow copy y'see)
    For our site it would need to go in a location away from our two server rooms OR AFAICT we'd have to set up 2 server instances


    I'm looking at BackupAssist as well (before anyone jumps down my throat!), but was interested if anyone had any experience/opinions on SCDPM2007..

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