Hardware Thread, SSDs, long life and a company that begins in V and ends in iglen in Technical; Are the PCIe ssd's any different as there are some of those that are bootable and faster than a sata ...
2nd July 2013, 07:58 PM #16
Are the PCIe ssd's any different as there are some of those that are bootable and faster than a sata connection ?
That or maybe a hybrid drive like the seagate momentus xt
2nd July 2013, 08:20 PM #17
Sorry to add another slightly off topic post to this thread but - I think you'll find it difficult to get many people to be able to demonstrate where they've had long life SSD's for two reasons.
1) The price of SSD's is still relatively high, compared with traditional disks anyway and if you translate that back four or five years to think how expensive they were back then I don't think you'll find many people have had them fitted that long.
2) Any makes / models of SSD that have lasted that long will probably now be discontinued so to get the same one's might be tough.
Sorry - I hope you find the info you're after, I think your SSD crusade is worthwhile. Hopefully some more posts like the previous person who said they'd had a fair few SSD's in for almost three years roll in.
2nd July 2013, 09:14 PM #18
I trust SSDs far more for longevity than spinning disc HDDs now. Fairly low failure rates, but for laptops especially it's working out well here. Oldest I have is a Crucial M4 64GB - that must be nigh on three years old now, and is perfect. Only had one SSD failure of 300 odd, but that was broken from the box (Sandisk).
2nd July 2013, 10:33 PM #19
Perhaps you could point out that manufacturers such as Apple, Microsoft, Asus, Lenovo etc. are all selling computers with SSDs. Apple are so confident in solid state storage that it is impossible to buy a MacBook Air, Retina MacBook Pro or new Mac Pro with a mechanical drive; and the iMac and Mac mini both have SSDs available as BTO options. As you probably know, Microsoft's Surface Pro tablet also comes with an SSD - typically a Micron C400 (a.k.a Crucial M4) or Samsung PM830 (a.k.a Samsung 830).
Originally Posted by jamesfed
Regarding the number of writes...
NAND endurance is something that always raises questions among those considering a move to solid state storage. Even though we have showed more than once
that the endurance of today's MLC NAND based SSDs is more than enough for even enterprise workloads, the misconception of SSDs having a short lifespan still lives. Back in the day when we had 3Xnm MLC NAND with 5,000 P/E cycles, people were worried about wearing out their SSDs, although there was absolutely nothing to worry about. The move to ~20nm MLC NAND has reduced the available P/E cycles to 3,000, but that's still plenty.
Client workloads rarely exceed 10GiB of writes per day on average and write amplification should stay within reasonable magnitudes as well. (Source
2nd July 2013, 10:38 PM #20
We have quite a few now, and haven't had any problems, although we've only been running them about a year or 2.
We order most of our PCs from viglen and have never had a problem with them supplying ssds, but then we buy our own equipment rather than leasing or whatever.
I haven't heard any issues with ssds that would put me off. For normal desktop usage, they are great, and much faster. Even if they are a bit more unreliable, they aren't expensive to replace, and not much more than a standard hard disk. We regularly replace dead hard disks anyway - I don't think ssds will be any worse.
Thanks to Chris_Cook from:
3rd July 2013, 11:01 AM #21
Well after a good discussion (and a 19 slide PowerPoint) all has been sorted out
The chaps at the MSP have also done some more reading at their end as well and have seen good things so....................pure SSD school on the way!
Thanks to all that contributed and provided ideas/links!
3rd July 2013, 11:15 AM #22
Being quite an early adopter of SSDs in our school I can give some stats.
We have mostly 1st generation intel X25-Ms and latest generation 520 series here.
We have 500+ machines with them in ranging from 1 to 4 years old.
No failures at all. Quite amazing really compared to old mechanical drives.
I also use them on my file servers and a huge volume web server. They have been running happily for a couple of years reading and writing gigabytes of data every day with no troubles at all.
I wouldn't believe anyone quoting the old wives tale of SSDs running out of write cycles, I've never seen it happen in the real world even on non TRIM firmware.
3.5 years, 5.68tb, no TRIM
Last edited by zag; 3rd July 2013 at 11:26 AM.
3rd July 2013, 11:35 AM #23
- Rep Power
As far as limited life goes, it was suggested to me back in the early days of SSDs that it was sensible (under Windows) to ensure the drives weren't being automatically defragged or indexed - neither of which is of much benefit on a student PC anyway.
3rd July 2013, 11:56 AM #24
I have lots Crucial SSD’s (different versions) none have failed and one has been running for 27,598 hours which is what 3 years 1month? Powered up time. It still has an estimated 9 years left on it. It’s already had over 5 GB read and written to it today.
This year I swapped out and started using SSD’s in classrooms and so far no problems.
EDIT: Thinking about it I had one Crucial SSD fail around 3 to 4 years ago. Back then sudden power losses could cause SSD’s to fail but that is far less of a problem now.
Last edited by Pottsey; 3rd July 2013 at 12:01 PM.
3rd July 2013, 09:16 PM #25
My home PC's SSD must be coming upto 4 years now and still working perfectly. At work we have some coming upto the 2 year mark and all is well. We use Stone here so have a 5 year warranty anyway. The way I see it is a network machine is not going to have much to write to it after the initial build and a few updates so its great for industry.
5th July 2013, 01:48 PM #26
Hi all, A little late to the party here.
I would like to add our take on this from the viewpoint of a UK System Builder and manufacturer of desktops to education. My perspective on SSD is that since January 2013 around 70% of our build to Education have been SSD based. We have seen massive SSD uptake since the pesky HDD floods in October 2011.
I don't have the figures to hand but we have a hell of a lot more HDD failures than SSD. Arguably our HDD fleet in warranty is over 5yrs of sales opposed to SSD which is just over 2yrs.
When it comes to SSD I would recommend investing a few extra pound and look at Intel 335 , Crucial M500 (new M4), Samsung 840, or if on a budget Kingston. There are cheaper SSD out there but the aformentioned are definitely worth a few extra quid. The cheaper drives tend to use a cheaper controller and Nand Flash which will equate to less write durability (higher failure rate) and slower performance.
Many hosting companies we provide with servers are choosing High-end consumer drives over enterprise SSD. Current warranted durability on SSD is high, Old EOL Intel 320 and 330 Series SSD are warranted by intel for 5 and 3 yr’s respectively with upto 20GB write per day. We did the math with a customer www.elastichosts.com and we figured that the Crucial M500 were warranted for 40GB write / day over their 3yr warranty.
This is even stated as their warranty- CT120M500SSD1 - 120GB, 2.5-inch Solid State Drive , from Crucial.com (Check Product details Tab)
My conclusion from failure rate and manufacturer warranty, the days of questionable SSD reliability are over.
To comment on @jamesfed initial issue with his integrator argueing the toss with warranty/ reliability, I suspect this is not a reliability case as all the UK Integrators I’m aware of are quoting SSD.
The reasoning is more likely to be an issue with a large pile of HDD sitting in a warehouse for 2013 rollouts not getting any smaller each day due to SSD over HDD demand. For me this would represent a big problem. The longer the HDD are there the less money they will be worth, business is business…
3 Thanks to VeryPC_Andy:
mac_shinobi (5th July 2013), TheScarfedOne (5th July 2013), zag (5th July 2013)
5th July 2013, 01:58 PM #27
@VeryPC_Andy, just a quick question but have you got any stats for failure by brand of SSD? Particularly Intel?
We've been using Intel drives all along and never had one fail, I'm wondering if this 0% rate scales up to thousands or 10s of thousands of machines?
5th July 2013, 02:28 PM #28
What is the Samsung 840 pro like with regards to the amount of gigs per day it should be able to read / write, as you mentioned it being about 40 gigs per day for the M500
Originally Posted by VeryPC_Andy
5th July 2013, 03:19 PM #29
For Data on failure rate I need to check with support team for Intel RMA record vs purchase ledger for each drive sku . So will require a bit of homework......
I'll happily check and post the figures - I'm on holiday next week to Greece but apparently all the sun will be here... so it'll have to wait a little while.
The Intel 335 is warranted for 3 Year - and has is warranted at a "minimum life" of 20GB /Day for 3 year.
Intel® Solid-State Drive 335 Series: Specification Section 2.6
Samsung PRO 840 is 40GB/day 5 year warranty .
SSD 840 Pro Series - 128 GB 2.5 inch MZ-7PD128 | Samsung SSD - TECH SPECS check warranty section
If you push the limits of over 40GB / Day the warranty is invalid. I can only assume is this is if you do 5 Years of 40GB a day in 3 Years and try to make a warranty claim .
Thanks to VeryPC_Andy from:
mac_shinobi (6th July 2013)
5th July 2013, 07:43 PM #30
Very late to party here but thought I might add.
Feel free to correct me but i believe the very old Asus eee 2g surf nettops were based on a 2gig ssd which out of the 35 we bought coming up to 5 years ago we have had not a single failed unit (apart from a few broken screens and keyboards).
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