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Hardware Thread, Rough costs to Implement SAN in Technical; Originally Posted by alan-d Yes and Yes :-) Then talk to Nimble - they will save you a shed load ...
  1. #16

    glennda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alan-d View Post
    Yes and Yes :-)
    Then talk to Nimble - they will save you a shed load of space/cost as there snapshots are soooo much more efficient than the likes of IBM/Dell/EMC.

    The figure I like to quote is 3.5tb of Exchange data on an Equallogic required 18.4tb of snapshot space whereas nimble used 350gb

  2. Thanks to glennda from:

    alan-d (16th May 2013)

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    Quote Originally Posted by zag View Post
    Bear in mind that the industry is changing massively and SANs with old style hard disks will be pretty lame in 3 years time.

    The entire industry is moving towards SSD based systems now.
    Enterprise-grade SSDs are VERY expensive. Read and write caches/accelerators even more so. I'm right now looking at a quote for some flash based wire accelerators and they cost $4,000 each for 73GB. Combine very expensive with the need for large data storage that most people need and you're looking at writing a cheque with LOTS of zeros in it. Sure, you can roll your own with a SuperMicro chassis, etc.and lots of 512GB consumer grade SSDs, but that misses the point of what SANs are used for.

    Now, change your timeframe from 3 years to 7+ years and you might be right. Just not yet.

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    localzuk's Avatar
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    Enterprise SSDs aren't quite that expensive from my experience. We bought HP 100GB SSDs for our storage solution, each one was about 330 IIRC.

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    zag
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    Yeh we've been buying the intel enterprise SSD's and they have reached a really good price point recently.

    Certainly no good for people who need 30tb but in the 1 -> 3tb capacity range they are surely the way forward.

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    glennda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seawolf View Post
    Enterprise-grade SSDs are VERY expensive. Read and write caches/accelerators even more so. I'm right now looking at a quote for some flash based wire accelerators and they cost $4,000 each for 73GB. Combine very expensive with the need for large data storage that most people need and you're looking at writing a cheque with LOTS of zeros in it. Sure, you can roll your own with a SuperMicro chassis, etc.and lots of 512GB consumer grade SSDs, but that misses the point of what SANs are used for.

    Now, change your timeframe from 3 years to 7+ years and you might be right. Just not yet.
    Read my post re Nimble - you get SSD performance from Sata drives.

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    glennda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zag View Post
    Yeh we've been buying the intel enterprise SSD's and they have reached a really good price point recently.

    Certainly no good for people who need 30tb but in the 1 -> 3tb capacity range they are surely the way forward.
    How much would 3TB of SSD's cost?

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    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glennda View Post
    How much would 3TB of SSD's cost?
    You're looking at about 5,000 with Intel DC 3700's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    You're looking at about 5,000 with Intel DC 3700's.
    I guess they are SLC? Or are they MLC?

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    @FragglePete have a chat with Chris from Cutter Project @Duke .

    He knows his stuff when it comes to SAN's and unified storage. Also he is local to you...

  11. 2 Thanks to MicrodigitUK:

    Duke (4th June 2013), FragglePete (16th May 2013)

  12. #25

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    MLC. Most drives are MLC now from what I can find. Finding SLC is more and more difficult, especially as some manufacturers have started moving to TLC as well.

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    zag
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    Yeh about 5k I think, its expensive but futureproof.

    SLC isn't used any more for enterprise stuff really. High grade MLC is good enough from my experience (Running our entire Hyper-V farm on intel 520 SSDs now). The 720s are good even when the power is switched off but are more expensive.

    I wouldn't touch mechanical drives with a barge pole after upgrading our server infrastructure to SSDs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by glennda View Post
    Read my post re Nimble - you get SSD performance from Sata drives.
    Hybrid solutions are a different story and can be quite cost-effective, I agree. They offer the best of both worlds right now.

    If all someone needs for their storage solution is 1-3TB then pure SSDs solutions can be had for a reasonable price. Storage needs for most are going up, not down though and in my case I need 20TB of enterprise storage as a bare minimum. A pure SSD solution for that amount of storage is FAR more expensive than a traditional or hybrid SAN solution. One day that will change, but that's not the reality today.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FragglePete View Post
    I'm in the process of putting my budget request in for next year (Sept '13 - Aug '14), and in my 5 year plan I wanted to implement a SAN solution of some sort during Summer 2014. My reasoning that I have three XenServers that are all local storage based will be 5yrs old from 2014, 2015 & 2016 respectively (each is housing 4 servers with one being the main storage server for user home directories). The reasoning being that I replace the first XenServer next year at the same time as introducing a SAN device. This can then also be used for storage of the subsequent replacements in the following years. Storage being based on the SAN thus helping reducing the costs of needed on the new servers and they won't need local storage (apart from the boot device).

    I know it's a bit like saying how long is a piece of string as how much storage do I need? But I just want an indication of how much it would cost approximately so I can fill out my spreadsheet with a rough cost. I'm not totally gen'd up on SAN systems as we've just been happy with Local Storage (and this may still be the way to go for us), but would welcome any feedback, experiences, advice, etc, etc.

    Again, thanks in advance all.

    Pete
    Pete,

    To answer your question, I would be inclined to looks at a hybrid SAN (as suggested by glennda) or unified storage (Enterprise NAS) solution if I were in your shoes. I don't have personal experience with the Nimble product, but technically it looks to be a very good solution, just don't know the cost.Other alternatives I have used are the IX Systems hybrid SAN and NAS devices (based on FreeNAS) and the Oracle ZFS storage devices (7120, 7320...7130 coming out soon).

    Another potential solution is to build your own SAN based on the SAM-SD specification -http://sam-sd.john-refactored.com/doku.php - I've heard a lot of good chatter about these.

  16. Thanks to seawolf from:

    FragglePete (16th May 2013)

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    Quote Originally Posted by seawolf View Post
    Hybrid solutions are a different story and can be quite cost-effective, I agree. They offer the best of both worlds right now.

    If all someone needs for their storage solution is 1-3TB then pure SSDs solutions can be had for a reasonable price. Storage needs for most are going up, not down though and in my case I need 20TB of enterprise storage as a bare minimum. A pure SSD solution for that amount of storage is FAR more expensive than a traditional or hybrid SAN solution. One day that will change, but that's not the reality today.
    You wouldn't use SSD for all things - just like you wouldn't have used 15k RPM SAS for everything in the past. You target it. File storage is on SAS here, and VMs are hosted on SSD. Backups are on SATA.

    Would you really need 20TB of SSD?

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    seawolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    Would you really need 20TB of SSD?
    Of course not. There were a couple of responses that indicated all SSD solutions were the only way to go. As you've stated, that's just not prudent.

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