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Hardware Thread, Desktops... in Technical; Originally Posted by Jamo We found VDI in schools to be a bit far fetched, poor audio recording and performance ...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamo View Post
    We found VDI in schools to be a bit far fetched, poor audio recording and performance generally in the OS (window scrolling etc) just isn't as good as a fat client. We are considering them for remote access which to be honest it is perfect for.
    As a school that uses thin clients, I can say that is odd. We don't use 'VDI', we use RDS and previously used Citrix. Multimedia performance has always been fine for us (so long as you update your servers every 3 years I'd say). Sure, they have latency issues if you want to do audio recording etc...

    But then, many schools don't actually *need* fat clients everywhere. Our thin clients were decided upon because they are used for web browsing, powerpoint and word.

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    @Jamo you shouldn't get that something must not be setup right. My previous place used VDI for web conferencing daily. Worked a great.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FN-GM View Post
    @Jamo you shouldn't get that something must not be setup right. My previous place used VDI for web conferencing daily. Worked a great.
    Its ok, but its really not as fast as a thick client! By fast I mean, take a large webpage, scroll up and down like a loony and there is noticable lag on the VDI station.

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    Jamo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    As a school that uses thin clients, I can say that is odd. We don't use 'VDI', we use RDS and previously used Citrix. Multimedia performance has always been fine for us (so long as you update your servers every 3 years I'd say). Sure, they have latency issues if you want to do audio recording etc...

    But then, many schools don't actually *need* fat clients everywhere. Our thin clients were decided upon because they are used for web browsing, powerpoint and word.
    We trialed the PCoIP variant of remote access. Basically the IT rooms do the OCR courses so video and audio editing is essential, the other rooms are general IT rooms and audacity is used often on them so audio recording was a pretty essential thing for us.

    They do work, don't get me wrong, but they don't feel like an upgrade.

  5. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamo View Post
    We trialed the PCoIP variant of remote access. Basically the IT rooms do the OCR courses so video and audio editing is essential, the other rooms are general IT rooms and audacity is used often on them so audio recording was a pretty essential thing for us.

    They do work, don't get me wrong, but they don't feel like an upgrade.
    I have a client who does audio recording through VMware VDI without a problem. In regards to Video performance there is a lot of tweaks to get this running smoothly if it is not for your.

    The only time I have really had a problem is on a 300ms latency connetion in Oman to Servers in London.

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    With the price difference just spec up 120/128gb SSD's instead. I really couldn't suggest using mechanical drives any more. Just avoid an original Sandforce drives or OCZ.

    As for VDI/thin clienting, it's not a one size fits all. Some schools work differently to others - as good as it may be, I'd hate to think how it would work here when the school culture has an (admirable) ability to use hefty programs anywhere they want including Solidworks and CS5. However we're yet to see something in place, hoping to see something in action soon before making too much of a judgement on it!

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    Jamo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glennda View Post
    I have a client who does audio recording through VMware VDI without a problem. In regards to Video performance there is a lot of tweaks to get this running smoothly if it is not for your.

    The only time I have really had a problem is on a 300ms latency connetion in Oman to Servers in London.
    The audio recording works with USB mics

    VMware KB: Recording sound through analog input devices fail in VMware View with PCoIP

    But in terms of throughput you are just hammering your network! You could also use the RES VDI extender app, which looks brilliant, however its quite expensive. I have managed to get a bit of analogue recording through PCoIP with the unsupported driver that teradici make, but it wasn't as seemless as the thick clients.

    I think what I am trying to say here is it works well, but it is not faster, nor vastly cheaper than thick clients, especially with Microsofts licencing scheme meaning that you have to buy an OEM licence for Windows to allow the EES VDA licence to apply. This means you cannot use the traditional thin client units without paying a premium.

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    cheers for all the input everyone...

    Microsoft TS is something we are hoping to implement in the near future on some of our older existing hardware and something along the lines of this OS (:: Thinstation - a light, full-featured Linux thin client OS ::). We are yet to trial this and the main thing holding us back is our server infrastructure... We have recently purchased a server solely for remote access from home but without a second server capable of taking the load should this fail I am reluctant to role this out to any classrooms. Having said that we are having a new virtual infrastructure installed in the Summer and anticipate this being something we look to implement following this (maybe for admin/teacher workstations).

    As for the current desktop purchase, as these computers will potentially run the CS suite of software, along with possible media creation in the future we have decided fat clients would be better suited. After speaking to quite a number of companies yesterday we now have a better idea of what we are looking for and have selected a product which I feel suits our needs. SSD will have to wait

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamo View Post
    The audio recording works with USB mics

    VMware KB: Recording sound through analog input devices fail in VMware View with PCoIP

    But in terms of throughput you are just hammering your network! You could also use the RES VDI extender app, which looks brilliant, however its quite expensive. I have managed to get a bit of analogue recording through PCoIP with the unsupported driver that teradici make, but it wasn't as seemless as the thick clients.

    I think what I am trying to say here is it works well, but it is not faster, nor vastly cheaper than thick clients, especially with Microsofts licencing scheme meaning that you have to buy an OEM licence for Windows to allow the EES VDA licence to apply. This means you cannot use the traditional thin client units without paying a premium.
    Ah missed you are using PCOIP - my client uses the RDP function for Audio Recording.
    @synaesthesia you would be surprised that CS5 can work flawlessly in VDI enviroments provided the performance tweaks for graphics are followed.

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    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CyBeRkId2002 View Post
    cheers for all the input everyone...

    Microsoft TS is something we are hoping to implement in the near future on some of our older existing hardware and something along the lines of this OS (:: Thinstation - a light, full-featured Linux thin client OS ::). We are yet to trial this and the main thing holding us back is our server infrastructure... We have recently purchased a server solely for remote access from home but without a second server capable of taking the load should this fail I am reluctant to role this out to any classrooms. Having said that we are having a new virtual infrastructure installed in the Summer and anticipate this being something we look to implement following this (maybe for admin/teacher workstations).
    As much as I like Thinstation, they are incredibly slow at updating things in my experience. I'd recommend going down a route of using a debian install and doing it yourself (I did this recently, my write-up is here HP T5735 Custom Debian install - to allow NLA and Session Broker to work with RDS).

    The reason to do this is that it allows me to keep the RDP client up to date to take advantage of things like RemoteFX and any new technologies that come out, in a matter of a few commands rather than having to build an entire new image.

    As for the current desktop purchase, as these computers will potentially run the CS suite of software, along with possible media creation in the future we have decided fat clients would be better suited. After speaking to quite a number of companies yesterday we now have a better idea of what we are looking for and have selected a product which I feel suits our needs. SSD will have to wait
    That sounds somewhat worrying! Why will the SSD have to wait? That is the single most important component to ensure you have in my view! The hard disk is the slowest component in a PC, so realistically, having a faster CPU won't give you the boost you want compared to an SSD.

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    Gaz
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    Getting back on topic I'd seriously look at getting an i5 and 120gb SSD as a minimum if you need 5 years worth of use out of them.

    How do you know further down the line your not going to be asked to install an application that is CPU intensive or a large filesize.

    Get some quotes for i5 systems if you already havn't.

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    Perhaps I should have made clearer that at present budget is a very big factor in this purchasing decision at present and as much as I would like i5's + SSD's etc. it is not going to happen at our budget level... something being say 50+ more at a minimum such as the jump to i5 & SSD is a total price increase of 3600. Also, the current age of our students (11-14 at present with a potential move to 11-16) means that we do not have the same hardware requirements as a school carrying out A-Levels upwards. I am also very keen on purchasing equipment that is a suitable fit for our needs and not going over the top just in case we need it in the future.

    Having said that I am keen to ensure any purchase we make maximises the budget and we get the best system for the money. This includes ensuring a small amount of overhead for future-proofing (realistically have requirements moved forward THAT much in the previous 5 years, and what changes do people see in the not too distant future that could impact a computers requirement for processing power?) and making sure the system does not have a significant bottleneck, which is just what a mechanical drive could be.

    With that in mind I have a question - if budget allowed for one of these two options which would you personally go for? An SSD drive instead of a mechanical drive OR an extended 3 year warranty? It may be that it comes down to that decision in our college as the prices are similar and just wanted to see which people viewed as more important.

    ***Ignore the above, I was miscalculating and the SSD upgrade is higher than the extended warranty addition.***
    Last edited by CyBeRkId2002; 20th February 2013 at 01:33 PM.

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    Gaz
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    I would definately go for an SSD (120GB) we have a fair few computers here that have SSD's and compared to the mechanical 7,200RPM the boot up times and application response times are amazing. As the computers age the SSD's should keep most of same level of performance for a long time whereas I find that the mechanical drives are fading. However others may say the opposite. If you go for an i3 get the fastest one which is currently the Ivybridge i3 3240 @ 3.4GHz Come June time Intel will bring their new chip's out but you are most likely upgrading before then anyway.

    Who are you getting the quotes from?

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    localzuk's Avatar
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    I'd say that if you have a choice between SSD and an i5, go for the SSD and pair it with an i3. That would be the best bang for your buck.

    Also, with warranties, whilst they are great for piece of mind, it can work out cheaper to replace components if they die instead (as all the components are off the shelf), it may be worth getting a few of the motherboards spare at the initial purchase, to save having different ones in future should one die but the rest could be bought as things die.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CyBeRkId2002 View Post
    something being say 50+ more at a minimum such as the jump to i5 & SSD is a total price increase of 3600.
    See if whoever is providing your workstations will do you a quote for a machine with a Seagate Momentus XT 750GB drive instead of a standard 3.5" drive. There's about 20 difference in the retail price on Amazon (30-ish for a 3.5" drive, 50-ish for the hybrid drive), and for multiple orders from an OEM you might be able to get that price down a bit more.

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