The M5 crash

All these car accident/collision debates are stupid, you have the self proclaimed 'good drivers' claiming that with their level of preperation nothing would have happened, usually the same group that claim that they have never been in an accident. Accidents just happen around them as other cars have to take evasive action to avoid them doing 20 on an 100k bit of road.

Then there are the x is not a factor crowd, it was all y's fault, usually policy makers and police looking to use it to further their aganda.

The truth is that everything is a factor, speed, driver skill, conditions, types of car, types and wear patterns of tires.

What exactly is the safe following distance in zero visibility, oh wait you mean you should be stopped,, in the middle of the motorway. Great, there are extraordinary conditions that are difficult or impossible to account for, was this one of those times, maybe, maybe not but all of this good driver, bad driver, slow driver, fast driver stuff is full on BS.

At least wait until the investigators have balmed it on whatever set of conditions they are attempting to claim are the absoloute cause of accidents this policy cycle.

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Originally Posted by j17sparky

I would agree but we don't know people were doing that - they probably were but not all of them.
Point is shat happens, and to blame it on the motorists and their speed is just as knee jerk as the media saying there was a firework display so it must have been that.

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Originally Posted by MK-2

I am not blaming speed as the only factor (as per my original post) I am saying that speed/tailgating are also an attributable factor

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As per my previous posts, I am not blaming speed as the only factor, even the police are stating they will investigate speeding and tailgating, so if that is a knee jerk reaction, guilty as charged.

And again, I am not saying it MUST have been speed, I am saying that it could be a contributing factor. If 30 of the cars had slowed down and one HGV kept banging on at 80, he would probably wipe out a fair few cars. That wouldn't be saying ALL drivers were speeding, but it is saying that the difference between a crash involving 30 cars and a pileup with multiple fatalaties involving 30 cars could have speeding as a factor.

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Originally Posted by SYNACK

The truth is that everything is a factor, speed, driver skill, conditions, types of car, types and wear patterns of tires.

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That is the whole point I'm trying to make, everything is a factor...to purely say it is ONLY the firework smoke is just as bad as saying it is ONLY speeding.

The problem is that you're expecting that the drivers can see the pileup, if you're driving down a clear motorway at 70 and you see a patch of fog/somke/whatever and slow down to say 50, if there's a car or pileup or bale of hay in the road then you're going to hit it. You were not to know that lurking 10 feet into the cloud is a ruddy great big pileup and no ammount of slowing down or sensible driving is going to stop that

Oh and no, I'm not a traffic accident investigator (as per my neg rep which i was fully expecting).
My humblest apologies for stating an opinion on something. perhaps we could also inform those in the union threads they are not politicians so have no right discussing union and government policy too.

Seriously this is what makes me sad about this site. Honest talk and opinion seem to be feared or loathed. Talk bad about Apple, Apple fans will hit you, talk bad about MS, MS fans hit you. Talk about something controversial without being a leading expert in the field, fire at will.

If I had just said "M5 crash - how sad" I'm sure it would have got to the same point in conversation of what exactly is to blame, I just wanted to actually discuss this.
And as I have stated from the first post, I am NOT blaming anything directly, merely saying speed could have been an additional factor.

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Originally Posted by MK-2

Oh and no, I'm not a traffic accident investigator (as per my neg rep which i was fully expecting).
My humblest apologies for stating an opinion on something. perhaps we could also inform those in the union threads they are not politicians so have no right discussing union and government policy too.

Seriously this is what makes me sad about this site. Honest talk and opinion seem to be feared or loathed. Talk bad about Apple, Apple fans will hit you, talk bad about MS, MS fans hit you. Talk about something controversial without being a leading expert in the field, fire at will.

If I had just said "M5 crash - how sad" I'm sure it would have got to the same point in conversation of what exactly is to blame, I just wanted to actually discuss this.
And as I have stated from the first post, I am NOT blaming anything directly, merely saying speed could have been an additional factor.

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And what you're getting is a discussion back, because you don't agree with what's being said doesn't mean this isn't a discussion.

P.s. it wasn't me who neg repped

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Originally Posted by MK-2

Oh and no, I'm not a traffic accident investigator (as per my neg rep which i was fully expecting).

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Seriously? I'm feeling left out. I always get negged when talking about a sensitive topic :D

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Originally Posted by Pyroman

And what you're getting is a discussion back, because you don't agree with what's being said doesn't mean this isn't a discussion.

P.s. it wasn't me who neg repped

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I'm not bothered who gave it TBH. I also actually like the fact people are arguing both sides. What I don't like is the fact people seem to wade in with rep for things like this. Going by my rep comments logic of me not being an accident investigator, well neither is anyone else here, so all comments are opinion. But if people are going to be punished for giving their opinion, then the site becomes more "i'd best not say x about y in case i get neg repped".

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Originally Posted by j17sparky

Seriously? I'm feeling left out. I always get negged when talking about a sensitive topic :D

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If some people see a button, they feel compelled to push it.

I've only used it once, I got no real satisfaction out of it (that wasn't today by the way)

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Originally Posted by MK-2

I'm not bothered who gave it TBH. I also actually like the fact people are arguing both sides. What I don't like is the fact people seem to wade in with rep for things like this. Going by my rep comments logic of me not being an accident investigator, well neither is anyone else here, so all comments are opinion. But if people are going to be punished for giving their opinion, then the site becomes more "i'd best not say x about y in case i get neg repped".

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To be fair though that all depends on if you actually care about rep, by your post count and the fact you have nearly 150 thanked posts i'd say your rep score isn't particularly important vis-a-vis your importance and influence on the site

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Originally Posted by MK-2

Oh and no, I'm not a traffic accident investigator (as per my neg rep which i was fully expecting).
My humblest apologies for stating an opinion on something. perhaps we could also inform those in the union threads they are not politicians so have no right discussing union and government policy too.

Seriously this is what makes me sad about this site. Honest talk and opinion seem to be feared or loathed. Talk bad about Apple, Apple fans will hit you, talk bad about MS, MS fans hit you. Talk about something controversial without being a leading expert in the field, fire at will.

If I had just said "M5 crash - how sad" I'm sure it would have got to the same point in conversation of what exactly is to blame, I just wanted to actually discuss this.
And as I have stated from the first post, I am NOT blaming anything directly, merely saying speed could have been an additional factor.

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You come across quite confrontational when putting across your point which is probably why you were neg repped.

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Originally Posted by creese

I got no real satisfaction out of it

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Maybe if I push your button?...

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Originally Posted by tommej

You come across quite confrontational when putting across your point which is probably why you were neg repped.

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i merely make a point, and try to be impartial. as i stated here, i have not said firework smoke isn't a factor, but have said speed could also be.....

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Originally Posted by j17sparky

Maybe if I push your button?...

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You wouldn't be the first... ;)

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Originally Posted by MK-2

i merely make a point, and try to be impartial. as i stated here, i have not said firework smoke isn't a factor, but have said speed could also be.....

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I think it was a freak unavoidable accident that will never be repeated. I believe several factors came together at the wrong time.

I do see a lot of backlash from this, especially if fireworks/or a bonfire is involved in the cause.