The only point I hear you making, is not with any of the information I have posted, but rather I called the prime minister a president. Easy thing to do, i know, but lets continue to make the point, its Very important to the conversation at hand. I think you will find you googled what I had said and the only thing you could find was his coalition government had pulled out support and teh prime minster had to resign and force a new election, and posted accordingly.
I don't believe you have shown me russian tv is biased, A few clips here and there does not show me anything. All media has its edge, which version you prefer to believe is your own free right but what this fine country is reading at the moment is something to be proud of. So.. all things said I meant Prime minister instead of president, as I can see this changes things dramatically, sit down while you adjust.
So whats this all boil down to ... "it has to do with you making claims that are demonstrably false whilst using known propaganda peddlers and anecdotes as evidence to try and back you up. "
Im using my own freedom of speech to voice concerns that there is an alternative version to this and we are not being informed, far worse, we are being deceived!.
I use All media. Along with some first hand talk, lots of news sites, lots of video sites you get the drift.
How dare I express my right as a free citizen using freedoms generations have paid the price for me to dare to speak out against such injustice.
Ok. I'll explain my obsession with the Prime Minister/President thing. The President resigning would mean a complete end to the current regime in Ukraine. It'd effectively mean an end to the military operations as the stand at present, as they were ordered by the President as a battle to reclaim the East from "terrorists" (to use his rhetoric).
The Prime Minister resigning on the other hand doesn't make any difference to the ongoing crisis, other than setting up the country for elections for MPs. It won't change the President. It will likely strengthen the President's hand, as a new election is likely to exclude the East due to the ongoing crisis (through the fault of both sides - the President isn't likely to push too hard to set up polling stations there (why would he try and weaken his own strengths?) and the separatists are unlikely to want them to, as they believe they have a mandate for independence) and therefore fill the Ukrainian parliament with Pro-EU/Pro-President ministers. Compare the concept to the USA. If the leader of the majority party in Congress resigns, the country carries on just fine. If the President resigns, then the entire executive government changes.
Hence my focus on that single seemingly minor error - it seems minor but makes a *huge* difference to the debate and to the crisis in general.
My pointing out errors is not an attack on your freedom of expression is it? You can still express them quite freely, but a freedom of expression does not include a freedom from criticism.
Regarding Russian TV - even one of RT's journalists has just resigned over their manipulation of the truth! A journalist that stood pretty steadfast in support of her network when criticised previously by other media sources.
Another example of how RT are attempting to twist things - http://pressimus.com/Interpreter_Mag/press/3500, basically asking leading questions in an attempt to make it look like the Ukrainian army are the aggressors.
So, your posting a claim that a conversation between a man and a woman by some interviewer, some how backs up whatever you have written above. And then back it up with a 'RT manipulation of the truth' confirmation ?
"His employers at RT, facing the fact that even their most credulous viewers would notice the discrepancy between the video and Graham Phillips’ report about it, posted his video on their website with text that tells another version."
This somewhat admission by the site on the second paragraph is interesting its its slant on the situation. Clearly they think its a coverup and not a panic stricken reporter who thought he had been fired upon or was about to be fired upon. Its hard to say as hes running off into the sunset screaming like a girl. Whatever you want to make of it, and you clearly have made yours, im going to paint an entire new agency as unreliable for it.
Graham Phillips, an RT contributor
Id offer some BBC, content to question, but im having trouble finding some, Same with reuters.
I found a nice RT article on the Slavyansk incident > http://rt.com/news/175572-ukraine-ph...ster-evidence/
Also found some other evidence of what happened.
Ok. I give up. Your discussion style appears to be "ignore 90% of each reply, focus on one bit, take it way out of context and confuse the hell out of the matter". So, I'm gonna give up as I simply don't know how to discuss with you - everything just seems to get ignored.
I bailed ages ago trying to argue with him about this for exactly the same reason. That's the problem with conspiracy theorists! It's impossible to have a reasoned debate because so many of them are unable to critically analyse sources of information.
Originally Posted by localzuk
Rumour has it that Neil Armstrong didn't actually set foot on the moon....
nice, ignore what I posted after discussing your 'proof' and then be accused of ignoring posts and not answering posts. Love that logic.
Looking from another viewpoint is also in the realm of conspiracy theorist, in the same league of the nutjobs who think we didn't land on the moon. I can see you guys are clear set in your mind sheeple and not open minded in search of facts.
More Ukrainian army propaganda, civilians lying. Nothing on BBC news. A conspiracy theorists imagination.
LiveLeak.com - Documentary: Ukraine's Refugees
The west are supporting this: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=87b_1406357550
Nice people, BBC news falling over themselves to report this.
The reason I "ignore" what you posted is that I have no idea what you were saying. I posted a transcript of an attempted interview by an RT journalist, who used leading questions and attempted to put words into the mouth of the interviewee but failed. Your response made literally no sense in the context of that. There was no "admission by the site on the second paragraph is interesting its its slant on the situation", it simply doesn't exist on the link I posted! Its a transcript! I simply do not understand what you're attempting to post.
And now, you've posted another video from RT, an agency that has been shown time and time again to be twisting the truth on a grand scale, to the effect that one of their journalists was ejected from Ukraine and another 2 have resigned over the wholesale manipulation of information. I simply do not trust what RT are saying. Its as simple as that. Nor RIA Novosti, which is actually operated by the government. They both have long histories of being the mouthpiece of their government. Other Russian channels do very similar things, for example 1tv have been shown to use footage of completely different countries to try and make things up - FAKE: «. I could go on but I fear you'll just ignore the wealth of evidence that has been presented.
I could say 'I have no idea what you are saying. Your response makes no sense.' , but that would make no sense. Its in English, what don't you understand?
" I could go on but I fear you'll just ignore the wealth of evidence that has been presented."
I commented on what you posted, its proof of nothing, its making claims out of thin air, you posted this link: http://pressimus.com/Interpreter_Mag/press/3500
On a link on that page :- http://www.interpretermag.com/trip-wire/
It clearly shows A negative interpretation of RT clarifying the situation was attempted.
"His employers at RT, facing the fact that even their most credulous viewers would notice the discrepancy between the video and Graham Phillips’ report about it, posted his video on their website with text that tells another version. They have attempted to explain the difference between their reporting about this video and that of their reporter, claiming that troops shot at him either off camera or at some unspecified other time."
If you watch the clip, the one you posted, it clearly shows what happened but the reported is clearly in a state of panic as he runs into the sunset screaming like a girl.
Where he is now is anyone's guess.
What an earth has this got to do with anything.... Again no sources quoted, no child soldiers - just clips of a few racists who exist in every country. If we want to look for intolerance then we could always start with Russia's (and Putin's) take on homosexuality.
Originally Posted by Galway
Research what you post - find out who's behind the links and stories rather than doing a quick Google and sticking up the first link you find. I think I'm reasonably open minded when presented with facts and not assertions, hearsay and downright biased information. The BBC may not be perfect but I'd believe it any day over one of Putin's mouthpieces.
A few racists? yup... just a few.
Intolerance of Homosexuals in Russia? If only everything was so black and white. Here's a nice wiki site what explains your fear, all the name of protecting minors. Remember that when you in london while gay pride is running and you have big hairy gay bikers with tongues down each others throats, I don't think terrorism laws will help you then, not when you have gay rights and all.
Again, how dare the Russians protect their children to this *shrugs*.
What fear do I have exactly? Of people being persecuted for their beliefs perhaps. But your comments do reveal quite a lot about how you see the world.
Originally Posted by Galway
What exactly are the Russians protecting their children from?
For the record Gay Pride is in Brighton and as a Sussex Police Officer I shall be there enjoying what is a very good natured event. And if I see any bikers - hairy or otherwise, with their tongues down each other's throat, I shall be sure to explain to them your views. Should I give them a good beating with my baton too?
tut tut, trying to show the reasoning of an issue YOU brought up you manipulate it against me and put words in my mouth? I congratulate you, I suggest you show your baton to who ever you want too, and look forward to hearing some of the suggestions. Don't forget sun cream :)
Um, lets keep this civil shall we before it moves too far away from being a discussion
Ok. You must read things in a totally different way than I do. As far as I can see, the interview I posted had a woman being interviewed by Richard Phillips, who was working for RT. He asked many leading questions, attempting to get the woman to attack her country's army and failing. That was why I posted it. Not anything to do with tripping wires/being shot at. The leading questions alone was enough for me to attack the RT journalist. He later tripped a trip-wire and set of a flare, which he tried to frame as being shot at by the Ukrainian army. RT later had to back pedal because it was nonsense and even with their usual propaganda levels people were not convinced, especially as the video I linked to had been published. He even continued to claim he had been shot at even though his OWN video showed a trip wire...
Originally Posted by Galway
Where he is now? Well, having been deported he is not in Ukraine. As he appears to be British, I imagine he's on his way back here. Something which you earlier posted! His feed on Twitter is still live and it would have taken you a matter of seconds to confirm.
Originally Posted by Galway
Sorry, but are you saying that those men shouldn't be allowed to show their love in public like a heterosexual couple is? Laws that prevent people from going about their normal loving lives, like heterosexuals, are a massive sign of intolerance. Its backwards and discriminatory against something that harms no-one. It doesn't harm children, that's for sure. The only thing that harms children is damaging relationships - abusive parents, parents that are abusive to each other, parents who engage in substance abuse etc... If 2 men love each other, and have a child they don't automatically harm that child. Conversely, a heterosexual couple can cause serious damage to children - in fact, the majority of damage to children is caused by heterosexual relationships!
I have a question for you. You don't have to answer it. Are you Russian?
I've just realised something. @Galway, you focus on largely overt things - like journalists being "beaten" or being shot at, whereas I'm focusing on relatively subtle things like the constitutional difference between the Prime Minister and President resigning, and about journalists asking leading questions for example. It goes a long way to explaining our difference of opinion here.