When did IT techs jobs, stop becoming male dominated?

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Originally Posted by torledo

What's wrong with pursuing the goal of attracting people who are underrepresented, how do you know there ISN'T a push for men in nursing from the NHS and government, just as certain councils are lacking ethnic minorities or woman in certain key areas - so they welcome applications from those people. Plus who the hell is 'pushing' women to become IT professionals ? Do you see advertising campaigns extolling the virtues of being an IT tech (like that bs teacher recruitment ads) ?
Do we have celeberity IT professionals (like the glamourous worlds of cooking or property development) , or is it councils and schools careers advisers hatching an insideous plot to undermine all-male IT departments
by forcing young women who'd rather do something less boring into the world of the basement dwelling IT techs....btw my job is the least boring thing i've ever done (maybe that's a male thing but women can have the same ambitions and interests as men so it's not totally alien to think that there are a lot of women who'd enjoy the role if they worked in the right environment and had the right mentors.)

Please enlighten me with other crackpot theories like 'sexism reversed'

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Howay, dont be so pedantic.

An ex girlfriend of mine was "pushed" into the electrician trade. She openly admitted that she knew her gender give her a massive head start in a male demonated trade. Her dad knew it too and pushed her into it. Shes since quit as it wasnt for her, especially as it involved LOTS of heavy lifting etc which she, as a averagely built female, couldnt hack. Surerly her employer knew this when they took her on, so that begs the question "why did they take her on?"
Theres plenty more examples but i think that will surfice. So does that enlighten you on "sexism reversed"?

Its just the same as racism reversed. In companies with few ethnics they actively look for people of ethnic desent to forfill equality statistics. Now im not saying ethnics or females or ethnic females ;) shouldnt get jobs, all im saying is it shouldnt matter who you are, if you are good enough for the job your good enough for the job. Employers shouldnt feel compeled to employ people based on equality "quotas".

Like WITCH I've been in this business for years. I got my BSc Computer computing degree from Lancaster Uni in the early 80s - yes we did use punch cards. The first PC - no Windows - came in during my last year there.

I'm old enough to be unfazed by the men v women thing and have been the one of few woman in a male environment for years with various employers. It was difficult at first, male bosses didn't have the slightest idea about concepts like maternity leave. Employment law and attitudes have changed and there really shouldn't need to be a debate like this.

I think the thing most likely to put women off IT is reading threads like this. Some PEOPLE enjoy technical stuff, some don't. Nobody enjoys be pointed out as different; whether that's their gender, race, creed, colour or age.

Come on guys don't scare off the newbies - of either gender.

I just stick with if you enjoy it and are good at it, then gender/race shouldn't be an issue.

Chris

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Originally Posted by elsiegee40

I think the thing most likely to put women off IT is reading threads like this. Some PEOPLE enjoy technical stuff, some don't. Nobody enjoys be pointed out as different; whether that's their gender, race, creed, colour or age.

Come on guys don't scare off the newbies - of either gender.

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Eh? Weren't we all in agreement for more woman in IT and that we would welcome more?

I just dont see the point in dragging the horse to water and forcing it to drink. Its different from showing the horse how good water can be ;)

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Some PEOPLE enjoy technical stuff, some don't. Nobody enjoys be pointed out as different; whether that's their gender, race, creed, colour or age.

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Fully agree, though totally opposed to job adverts that aren't looking for a person capable of doing the job, but are looking to fufil ethnic, gender etc recruitment figures.

Where are all these jobs that you have to sleep with someone to get? I'm soooo disappointed I've never found one. :lol:

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Originally Posted by j17sparky

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Originally Posted by torledo

What's wrong with pursuing the goal of attracting people who are underrepresented, how do you know there ISN'T a push for men in nursing from the NHS and government, just as certain councils are lacking ethnic minorities or woman in certain key areas - so they welcome applications from those people. Plus who the hell is 'pushing' women to become IT professionals ? Do you see advertising campaigns extolling the virtues of being an IT tech (like that bs teacher recruitment ads) ?
Do we have celeberity IT professionals (like the glamourous worlds of cooking or property development) , or is it councils and schools careers advisers hatching an insideous plot to undermine all-male IT departments
by forcing young women who'd rather do something less boring into the world of the basement dwelling IT techs....btw my job is the least boring thing i've ever done (maybe that's a male thing but women can have the same ambitions and interests as men so it's not totally alien to think that there are a lot of women who'd enjoy the role if they worked in the right environment and had the right mentors.)

Please enlighten me with other crackpot theories like 'sexism reversed'

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Howay, dont be so pedantic.

An ex girlfriend of mine was "pushed" into the electrician trade. She openly admitted that she knew her gender give her a massive head start in a male demonated trade. Her dad knew it too and pushed her into it. Shes since quit as it wasnt for her, especially as it involved LOTS of heavy lifting etc which she, as a averagely built female, couldnt hack. Surerly her employer knew this when they took her on, so that begs the question "why did they take her on?"
Theres plenty more examples but i think that will surfice. So does that enlighten you on "sexism reversed"?

Its just the same as racism reversed. In companies with few ethnics they actively look for people of ethnic desent to forfill equality statistics. Now im not saying ethnics or females or ethnic females ;) shouldnt get jobs, all im saying is it shouldnt matter who you are, if you are good enough for the job your good enough for the job. Employers shouldnt feel compeled to employ people based on equality "quotas".

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You just showed your ignorance by using the word 'ethnics',

Yeah, and thanks for the feel good equality statement. Funny how you've obviously bought into the Daily Mail angle of the victimised white male, (you know they pity the young white males 18-35 who are overlooked for jobs and housing becuase of quotas by nasty employers and immigrants getting all the good housing stock) what a complete load of bs.

For decades 'ethnics' as you refer to us and women and indeed 'ethnic females', the disabled and other minority groups have faced huge obstacles to achieve parity. The idea that we are now experience 'reversed sexism' or even reversed racism (which I know you're not suggesting becuase you couldn't be that stupid) is an insult to those who have exeprienced real life-or-death racism or women who've experienced trautmatizing cases of sexism. Be careful how you bandy about the use of the term 'sexism'.

And you talk a load of cobblers about women as electricians. You're friend wasn't suitable for the job simple as that, same as many men aren't suitable as gas fitters or plumbers even several months and several thousand pounds after jumping onto the bandwagon - not a physical or gender issue at all. So what if she took advantage of the opportunities offered as a female entrant, is that any different to the unemployed who are offered free entry-level training to lucrative trades or the ex-Longbridge employees who were offered free GAS service training because of the media attention and politicians falling over themselves to help those made redundant. What 'reverse' term can we coin for that.

There are loads of women now becoming electricians and who enjoy the job and are 'averagely built females' and can lift moderately heavy loads, there's less heavy lifting being an electrician than if you worked in a warehouse or as a removals person. I should know, my dad has been an electrician for over 30 years and the heaviest thing he has to lift are his ladders.

Also I don't think you know the meaning of the word pedantic.

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Originally Posted by ZeroHour

torledo your post is very confrontational to say the least.

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So are you saying they cant hack helpdesks?

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how do you know there ISN'T a push for men in nursing from the NHS and government

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Plus who the hell is 'pushing' women to become IT professionals ?

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Our school is trying to get more into IT (using things like CC4G - and where is CC4B then!) and if you read magazines such as IT Week etc you will regularly see articles stating about how we *MUST* get more woman in IT. Just because there are not a huge amount of woman in IT is it such a problem.

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Do you see advertising campaigns extolling the virtues of being an IT tech

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There are ad's on the tv promoting training in IT at least.

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maybe that's a male thing but women can have the same ambitions and interests as men so it's not totally alien to think that there are a lot of women who'd enjoy the role if they worked in the right environment and had the right mentors.

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I said "Generally" not ALL.

I dont have any problems with woman in IT, the more the merrier. I just hate the push to ensure they choose it as a job.

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I don't mind people generalising at all, there's a certain ring of truth to generalisations, but ofcourse individual situations vary greatly.

I'm not saying women can't handle the helpdesk, quite the opposite, that's traditionally thought of as THE role for a woman in IT... first-line support on the corporate helpdesk, answering the phone, resetting passwords, apologising to users...I'm saying a woman in IT could and should do more than that, and be afforded the opportunity to move beyond that. a lot of women have and they should be applauded for doing well in a male dominated arena. for every case of a woman getting a 'leg-up' becuase of quotas or targets or whatever there are a dozen cases of a women being overlooked or frozen out for a mangement position. Just ask my boss she's a highly paid manager with over 25 years teaching experience in a male dominated area.

At the end of the day there's enough job opportunities out there so that as a male IT professional you don't feel downhearted because you perceive you've been overlooked because of race and gender. The important positions of which there are many and varied will always look at ability, experience and how that individual can function as a team member above all else.

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Originally Posted by torledo

You just showed your ignorance by using the word 'ethnics',

Yeah, and thanks for the feel good equality statement. Funny how you've bought into the Daily Mail angle of the victimised white male, what a complete load of bs. For decades 'ethnics' as you refer to us and women and indeed 'ethnic females', the disabled and other minority groups have faced huge obstacles to achieve parity. The idea that we are now experience 'reversed sexism' or even reversed racism (which I know you're not suggesting) is an insult to those who have exeprienced real life-or-death racism or women who've experienced trautmatizing cases of sexism. Be careful how you bandy about the use of the term 'sexism'.

And you talk a load of cobblers about women as electricians. You're friend wasn't suitable for the job simple as that, same as many men aren't suitable as gas fitters or plumbers several months and several thousand pounds after jumping onto the bandwagon - not a physical or gender issue at all. So what if she took advantage of the opportunities offered as a female entrant, is that any different to the unemployed who are offered free entry-level training to lucrative trades or the ex-Longbridge employees who were offered free GAS service training because of the media attention and politicians falling over themselves to help those made redundant.

There are loads of women now becoming electricians and who enjoy the job and are 'averagely built females' and can lift moderately heavy loads, there's less heavy lifting being an electrician than if you worked in a warehouse or as a removals person. I should know, my dad has been an electrician for over 30 years and the heaviest thing he has to lift are his ladders.

Also I don't think you know the meaning of the word pedantic.

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:lol: What are you on?

Have a read back over mine and look at how many assumptions you have made, and god you arnt half good at reading whole statements which wernt even posted :? .
Oh and bravo on the "i dont agree with you so you obviously read the mail/sun" arguement, wish id got it in first! :roll:

What would you like me to call you? Whats the new PC term then, im obviously using last weeks term.

You really are abit of a freak fella, calm yourself down :lol:

ok calm down people before we have to tell santa not to come and visit you all for being bad edugeekers.. I have big red phone that goes direct to him I will use it :)

Russell

:)

Traditionally IT was dominated by women. Men did the programming and were typically university graduate scientists and general IT was done by women picked from the typing pool. - probably because they were the fastest typeists and were easiest to exploit with lower pay.

It's all about stereotypes, isn't it really! If you're not an 18-25 male with spots and glasses then you can't work in IT. I do not fit into a stereotype and people find that difficult sometimes. Bottom line is that the way to change things is to set an example. At first I was insulted by the 'Look Sir she's fixed it!!!!!!' and the disbelief of staff. But then when you think about it you're making headway with people, particularly kids, changing their ideas about what sort of person IT techs can be. Encouraging kids to think about their choices of career by setting an example....maybe they can do anything they set their mind to.
Happy winter holiday :D

I can't see a problem with women in IT at all. Beats staring at the monitor all day :-)

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Originally Posted by HodgeHi

I can't see a problem with women in IT at all. Beats staring at the monitor all day :-)

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I agree! :D

Obviously! It helps that I'm gorgeous too :wink: