oh i understand now.
oh i understand now.
Im only old enough to have seen 2 elections and the manifestos. So far its 2 out of 2 for lies and bullshat.Quote:
Originally Posted by localzuk
When do polititions actually do as they say? Im yet to read or hear anything which isnt misleading.
Ill still read the manifestos, but i worry that there is actually little point of doing so and a pin the tail on the donkey politcal party would be a more appropriate way of voting.
You didn't vote for Tony Blair either, so what's your point?Quote:
Originally Posted by paulhyman
So in contrast you have only seen one party in power. I grew up in Thatcher's Britain - nuff said.Quote:
Im only old enough to have seen 2 elections and the manifestos.
I saw the selling of the family silver - [ Britain's industries ]
I saw the boom and bust economics
I saw Black Wednesday in which almost 4 Billion was spent trying to prop up the pound - and who was an advisor in that fiasco ? A certain David Cameron !!
I saw 6 million un-employed
I saw Coal miners loose their homes, their familys and lives just so the gov could save a few bob importing cheaper coal from abroad. In the end it more more expensive to pay the miners benifits than to close the pits.
I saw Keith Joseph screw up the education system.
I saw thatcher almost kill the NHS service by making one large paper chase and managment club
Want to know why the super bugs are such as issue in hospitals up and down the country ? Thatcher did away with in house cleaning for the hospitals - its all now contracted and of course the trusts go for the cheapest......Whats the saying about paying peanuts and getting monkeys ?
I saw VAT on fuel
I saw a great deal under the Tories and most of it was crap, lots of crapness now falls under 'New Labour' which is just as close to the Tories back in the 80's. Old Labour values have gone, Blair destoryed those but at the same time used them when he could just to get his way - like the 'block vote'
New Labour + The Tories are the same party - there is hardly any divide in their policies or ideas anymore.
If only the Lib Dems would buck up their ideas they may be a force to contend with but in all honesty they are happy just slagging off the other parties as they know they will never get in power.
At least you can go and vote in this country without fear of a gun being held at your head - we live in a democracy of sorts - not like many other countries in this evil world. / Rant over - time for lunch.
I voted for a party with who I thought had the best policies and had the strongest leadership, that is no longer the case.
That is my point.
If you was going to have a very important operation and the surgeon that you see before fills you with confidents and at the last minute after you have agreed for the op. They have to change the surgeon for some reason, with someone that has less experienced or someone you was not as confidents with, would you be happy ?
I would rather pull the pubes from my balls than vote for cameron
Damn you lot.......I came here expecting a flame war
By contrast I grew up in the 70s. I saw the electric getting switched off at 6pm at night, I saw mass strikes and a hell of a lot of poverty. Things are relitive. Things needed fixing, and yes, some of the solutions were wrong, but by the end of the 80's the UK was in a hell of a better position that it was then.Quote:
Originally Posted by mattx
My theory is Labour have had their chance. Gordon has had his chance. They have had the time now to put right any of the Tories mistakes, have they? No.
I didnt see the Tories in the 80s, all ive seen is Labour turn this country into a place for the scum, immigrants, and wendy wide legs to thrive.
Education is getting better in ways.
The whole "school experiance" is better than it was even when i was at school. But the overall achievement level has drops drastically in the same period, but has been covered up with statistics based on easy to pass exams. University is now a joke as anyone and everyone goes thus making any degrees achieved years ago, worth rather less.
The NHS is on its way out. NHS dentists are all but gone. Public transport is on its knees in most parts of the country. The housing market is unsustainable. Interest rates/banks/etc are unstable. Inflation has had a spin put on it. What industry we do have left is still in decline, not only due to factors such as china, but with labour allowing do-gooders have their way. Evil motorists are bum-raped at every turn.
I dont care who caused these problems anymore, Labour have had a bloody long time to put them right and thats all that matters *now*.
I dont care who gets in as long as it isnt labour. If that means voting for the Tories purerly because they are the only ones who stand a chance then so be it.
Can't remember which old timer it was but someone from the Tory old guard commented in an interview that he found it amusing that Labour were getting through stuff that the Tories had been beaten on and Labour were slipping through stuff that the Tories would never have attempted as they knew they would be lamblasted!Quote:
Originally Posted by mattx
But as others have said most people vote on "that nice man on the TV, he looks like he'll do a good job" rather than what they have stated they will do. Which they never stick to either. People have got to that stage that they expect to be told what to vote, what do and what is happening, the best for them is a benign dictatorship! Democracy just doesn't seem to work anymore. I try and keep on top of these things & find it hard to see who is for what & they all end up saying they will do roughly the same anyway! You can see why people give up voting.
No idea who to vote for, Labour just seem a terrible option, Tory seem to have no substance, Libs I have no idea about anymore, Greens seem to get confused about anyother policies other than tranport and energy, UKIP worry me slightly and no loony raving party in my area!
Ohhh & has it been mentioned on here before about how many Loony party pledges have become real polocies? Shall have to dig up teh site.
here here j17sparky.
I think the point many have is that people voted for the Labour party, partly for Blair, and partly for the policies. Now Blair has gone and the old policies getting ripped to shreds are we now in the hands of a govt with a leader and policies nobody voted for?Quote:
Originally Posted by NickJones
Originally Posted by Dos_Box
Exactly. In theory a party could be voted in on the back of a "Yes man" in leadership. Once the party is in power it could chuck the leader and any opposing members and simply make up their own policies.
Now call me daft but what exactly is the point in a party if each leaders/members policies are differant?
Our political system is far from perfect, I think most would agree.
We do however have some choices, even if the main choice is a toss-up between a centre-right 'socialist' party or an even more centre-right 'conservative' party. You can choose to no-show at the ballot box, although in many cases this means that as a result some politicians (national and local) get elected by the minority of voters who turn out. We can also openly criticise our politicians and political system without fear of being locked up or worse.
You might want to reflect on what is happening in other countries around the world, one-party states, military juntas, civil war.... compared to this the UK suddenly seems not so bad despite the problems we seem to have with the NHS, Education, Crime etc etc.
you are 100%
it is all well and good purely looking policies if the leader of the party is not the type of person that will carry them out. You need a leader that will be strong and bold (nothing like the england football manager).
we all know they lie and are only interested in lining their pockets in one form or another. but you have to vote for both the policies and the future PM and not just whoever from the party. if a party is in for 4 years why not just change it each year.
Cameron might not be the best choice but is Brown (might help if you look at your bank balance before you answer).
Before the PM changes there should be a vote.